John Bunch and his Locos

I have opened this with a deliberately provocative title. Why is it that some people regularly read and contribute to this forum yet don't seem to understand that a large part of a forum's content and raison d'etre is for opinion, argument and speculation? THis forum's benefit to enthusiasts and fans is that it provides an antidote to the unnecessary habit of pointless secrecy that lingers like a bad smell around a lot of preserved railways? There are few if any secrets worthy of the censorious attitude of some posters at the tail of the last thread; there is nothing wrong with speculation, and as someone who knew JB in the context of his locos I can tell you that he would not care less what people say or think on this or any other forum, as it is by definition, uninformed opinion. I suspect his reaction like others who have been the subject of speculation, would be to laugh while remaining quietly pleased at remaining the subject ongoing discussion. It is ultimately a form of flattery, not insult as Oscar Wilde alluded.
Despite this some people (and their posts are there to see in the previous thread) want to drop a completely unnecessary veil of silence over common or garden speculation and intrigue, which quite frankly is counter productive as it leads people to wonder what is being hidden, even when (as in this case) there is nothing to be hidden and no reason to act as though this is some kind of state secret.
If you are going to lock threads on the basis that they have become out of date then you need to delete 75% or more of the threads remaining on this forum. Is that the intention? Not for the first time I am contemptuous at this wafer thin skinned, unnecessary and unproductive hypersensitivity around discussion and speculation of straightforward railway topics. There are important things in the world with moral and ethical dimensions where maybe some genuine sensitivity is needed; this is not one of them.
Carry on.

 

Well, there's an obvious bit of speculation to be done - where is the Standard 5 going to end up? There are rumours hinted at that have not been disclosed - but does it matter about saying nothing if they are just that - rumours?

 

I have got to agree with your thoughts. I would like to see this thread moved to the steam section so that people can update it with work in progress on the locos. I started a thread about 31874, but would much rather see the news about the loco in this thread.
Over to you Mods.

 

Moved to steam traction.

 

Whilst i agree that the engines are worthy of discussion, it should not be used as a platform to drag up the past
we know about the mogols, and that they are now in the care of the Swanage Railway, and i'm sure that they will keep us informed as the engines get repaired and returned to traffic ,
we know that 34016 is at carnforth and that could mean a return to steam on the mainline but thats all we do know, as regards 73096, again time will tell, i'm sure that in time JB will announce what the future is for 34016 and 73096, but should that prevent descussion , i think not, as long as its kept relivent and does not become personel.

 

I agree. Let's start forgetting the past and concentrate on the future.

 

My guess is with overhauling 34016, 35018 coming soon and 5690 just vacating the workshop, 73096 is probably biding its time, afterall it's the smaller one, and probably better condition (given it's recently exited service and kept undercover).

When its ready to be moved, I'm sure it will.

 

If 35018 is expected to be out in the next few months, would the std 5 be a faster job than 34016? she's due to move to an undisclosed location sometime in the next 4 weeks or so, has anyone seen 34016 at Carnforth lately, has she gone inside yet, its widely expected that she will need a full mechanical overhaul,
i'm wondering this, has carnforth started to strip Bodmin for overhaul and decided to take a look at 73096 as she may need less work , the 4 to 6 week gap between bodmin arriving and the 5 expecting to be moved being the time its taken to strip 34016 for assessment ? , and to clear the workshops of outstanding jobs ?

 

73096 may need LESS work but that work is expensive as I am told much concerns repairs to / replacement of the copper firebox. Where it's a choice between spending time OR money then time wins over money; sadly 73096 needs money - much of which is in short supply given the mangling of the 2014 season of steam operation.

 

...not to mention 34073 - another JB owned loco. Source of spares for 34016/67 or restoration in its own right? We'll have to wait and see.

 

Didnt she have a lot of firebox work carried out at her last overhaul, so who told you she needed firebox work? had she needed a lot of work, she would have been failed and not ran right up to the end of her ticket , At hers and Bodmins last overhauls, the boiler work done was so that this time round both should not need extensive repairs . i believe new half sides were fitted to 73096's firebox then along with extensive re staying.

 

Money can't be that tight if CRRES has bought 2 Bulleids and a standard 5. May now be asset rich and cash poor I suppose or ownership hasn't changed.

 

We've all heard the rumours of it going to Carnforth, but someone from the Mid Hants seemed to be suggesting a different destination recently.

 

Nobody has reported a change of ownership for any of the locos.

 

Well mr bunch must be pretty well off if he's paying CRRES to overhaul 34016, possibly 73096, whilst his moguls get overhauled in Dorset. Either that or there is some benefactors in the background.

 

It's possible that the Mogul's overhaul costs may be offset against running on the Swanage Railway and hire to other lines. Even if that's not the full story, it probably means there's little or no real cash changing hands yet. So long as there are proper contracts in place and everyone knows where they stand, that should be a good arrangement.

Bodmin and the Std 5 are more interesting. No one has said anything about either loco changing hands, but then, given who's involved, they probably wouldn't issue a press release, would they? My guess is that one is being sold to help fund the overhaul of the other, but which way around? Rumour has it that Bodmin is closest to JB's heart, so I would suggest that 73096 is the one that's for sale.

In many ways, 73096 looks the more attractive proposition of the two: it was in use most recently; had a lot of work done on the "bottom end" when the cylinder was replaced; is a gauge-friendly, 75-mph loco with a very good track record (ahem!) on the mainline; it's not too big to be attractive to medium-to-large preserved lines. No one ever made a profit from a steam loco, but this one ought to "wash its face" more easily than most.

On the down-side, rumours persist over whether some of the new motion parts (coupling rods, I think??) were manufactured to the correct mainline standards, and now Fred suggests that the firebox may need (further) expensive repairs. I can see how these sorts of issue might be delaying negotiations. Or perhaps there's more than one party bidding? Or some other complication over previous ownership, or other liabilities? One could think of dozens of reasons why those involved aren't ready to say anything... yet.

Or maybe it's not for sale at all, but the place it's being moved to and the means of getting it there haven't been arranged yet? After all, Bodmin and the 3 moguls must have taken up a lot of JB's time lately, not to mention his involvement with Tangmere and other WCRC operations...

Who knows? Not me, for sure. As usual, we'll probably have to wait for the low-loaders to turn up at Alresford, or a pair of class 57s at Alton... ;-)

 

Certainly nobody publicly has stated a change of ownership, however an employee of WCRC stated on Facebook when Bodmin moved north, that David Smith now owned 34016 and 35018, but without official confirmation this could just be the usual mess room rumours!

 

The truth is going to be something in between , with the recent availibility problems of class 7 engines in the south, and having to use 60 mph limited black 5's , i can see the reasoning behind having either 35018, 34016 or 73096 in their stable, David Smith does not have to own outright any of the engines, it could be a shared ownership, but i did see somewhere on a report on 35018, that Carnforth was not paying for the work, so i guess that might mean that its being done on behalf of an owner, who ever that may be
my take on it is this, that 35018 is probally owned by john bunch, and he has sold half shares in the other 2 to david smith that way, david smith has bodmin and 73096 in his stable and that the CRSS stable at Southall will comprise of 35018, 34016 ,34067,73096 and one of the jubilies and a black 5 of course there no guessing who is operations manager for 35018, 34016,34067 and 73096 best of both worlds ,steam dreams would i guess take any of them, 35018, would be very much in demand as would 73096

 

plus also, with his Mogols now being Swanage railway based, i would not bet against any of the 4 engines mensioned being based there to effect a change of engines on a future waterloo to weymouth charter , wouldnt it be nice if one day 35018 runs a tour to Wareham and 31625 and 31806 take it onto the branch and down to Swanage

 

It could be the "friend of mr smith" that supposedly owned 34067 when bought from Riley's. The raib report debunked that particular myth.
Whatever, it's no doubt all done in the most tax efficient manner possible. If that means a Bunch of operational locos once more for us all to enjoy what's not to like.