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Jeremy Hosking is after another BR Standard.........................

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by green five, Oct 26, 2011.

  1. Ruston906

    Ruston906 Member

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    I would think for the SVR maybe best to try and get Jeremmy Hosking to base some of his other locos on the railway to the present one under restoration at Ian Rileys maybe good arrangement for both parties get one out of well known motive power shortage and brings income to off set the cost of restoring the locos from barry condition.
     
  2. guard_jamie

    guard_jamie Part of the furniture

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    Jeremy Hoskings operates a policy, so far as I can see, of keeping locomotives where they were when he purchased them, in the main, and excepting mainline locos which are fairly nomadic anyway. I think that is a sensible policy, so that we may all enjoy his generosity. And the loco at Rileys? A Merchant Navy, not I think the best choice for the SVR!
     
  3. Ruston906

    Ruston906 Member

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    I agree in a ideal word its not a sensible choice but the sensible choices are all not in working order rusting down the side of bridgenort shed. They hired in the 9f which was not sensible a said by lots of people on here but sometime i think you need to make a brave decision and think long term. The choice may have to be made between a class 8 pacific or seeing a lot more the class 20 next year i would be happy with either as like a change when i go and visit which is often.
     
  4. acorb

    acorb Part of the furniture

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    I think a 9F is a much better proposition than a Merchant Navy, i'm sure the track engineers would agree too! What the SVR needs to do is to get the labour situation sorted at Bridgnorth, as well as striking a balance between contract and home based work. We now have three locos that have funding in place for overhaul (7802, 80079 and 75069) as well as work in progress with the Taffy tank, 34027 and 1501. I think funding is also in place for 42968 when it retires (next year?). What isn't so certain is whether the SVR will be able to complete these overhauls in house in a timescale tht is required. Here brave decisions need to be made that are in the best interest for the long term future of the line. Until the line can turn out one loco a year from the works, then hiring in will always be necessary.
     
  5. Lingus

    Lingus New Member

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    Not at the moment.
     
  6. guard_jamie

    guard_jamie Part of the furniture

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    I agree that changes need to be made to ensure that the motive power requirements of the railway can be matched by the Works, and financially and on time. This is something that has been needing doing for some time and it looks like an overhaul of the system is soon to be underway. This will take time, and it will take longer for the effects of this to be seen, in the meantime things are going to be a bit tight but I am utterly convinced that a Merchant Navy isn't the way to get around this!
     
  7. JMJR1000

    JMJR1000 Member

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    You know I feel sorry for the Merchant Navy class survivors, they seem to be the black sheep of steam locomotive preservation, dismissed by many. Most say they should be on the main line, but they can't all be on the national network... they need to be able to go elsewhere as well. Now I know that the big MNs aren't the most practical locos around, certainly considering their size and weight, but they are just as signicant as any other type of loco.

    10 of them have survived, and nearly all them are slowly being restored, but because of their impracticality, do we turn our back on them...? If we did, I think our heritage movement would be much poorer for it... And what if it didn't stop there, while we're thinking practically, diesels are more practical than steam locomotives... Thankfully, thats what this movement is all about, going against logic and common sense and not letting a single steam loco perish (most of the time anyway...)

    Now that that's out of the way... I'd say Jeremy Hosking has a good policy of having his engines based mainly on heritage railways. And as for his merchant navies, he can base them where ever he chooses, as long as they can get there... Good to here about his recent acquisition, a fine class the 4MT Tanks.
     
  8. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

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    Economics can't be ignored, too few of our heritage railways are in a position !o justify unnecessary expenditure. It isn't just the Merchant Navies, there are few places that can justify the additional expense of running any type of class 8 pacific regularly compared to, say, a standard 4 of some description.
     
  9. guard_jamie

    guard_jamie Part of the furniture

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    On a railway such as the GWSR or GCR, a Merchant Navy might not be an issue. However on the SVR there are tight curves, and weight-restricted bridges. Having an MN running up and down on a regular basis would be no good for the infrastructure or for it, lovely though it would be to see - not sure if a MN has ever visited the SVR? If you look elsewhere on here you'll find one of my posts relating to my first mainline run, which was behind 35028 - I have had a softspot for Merchants ever since, but sometimes pragmatism wins out.
     
  10. 46118

    46118 Part of the furniture

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    Ruston 906 mentions the 9F as not being an ideal hire-in loco for the SVR. Certainly in terms of coal useage that was correct, however a 9F has a relatively low axle loading, and the non-flanged middle coupled wheel, so is perhaps not too bad for the p-way. A Merchant Navy would not be too kind to the SVR P-way in regular use.The SVR have a reserve of ideal class 4/class 5 motive power awaiting overhaul.
     
  11. John Petley

    John Petley Part of the furniture

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    If only Jeremy Hosking would next buy the VSOE British Pullman train! While a journey (and meal) in one of these superb carriages is quite an experience, somehow, this train needs a steam loco up the front to complete the atmosphere. At the moment, most of the VSOE excursions are hauled by class 67 diesels, including the regular Folkestone run that takes people on to Venice. The argument that steam would be impractical here because of late ferry connections no longer applies, as passengers are now transferred to and from France via "Le Shuttle". If the bulk of the VSOE day trips could go over to steam haulage, it would provide plenty of work for several main line Merchant Navy locomotives - indeed, they would be the ideal machines to use, as they are class 8, but can run on the more gauge-restricted routes in Kent, for instance.
     
  12. class8mikado

    class8mikado Part of the furniture

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    There is also a highly appropriate class 7+ in the JH stable ...
     
  13. JMJR1000

    JMJR1000 Member

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    I was not implying that the SVR should have a MN, as I know they have issues with certain types when it comes to their loading gauge, tight curves, etc. No, ideal (well as close to ideal as you can get) heritage railways are lines' that are as long as possible, with wide curves. The GWSR and GCR are fine examples as they both have the potential to become one of the longest lines in the country, and they both were main lines so are more than cappable with dealing with an MN. In fact the WSR might be a good choice, although I'm sure if their loading gauge is big enough, or their curves are wide enoungh.

    What I was trying to say was that while we cannot ignore the economics, we cannot ignore their historic value either. And that when they do eventually get restored, they can't all be on the main line, some will have to be based on heritage railways, whether their viable or not.

    However none of this really matters, because due to all these factors, it is no wonder why all of them are owned either by an individual or a private group, and not by a heritage railway, besides the MHR. And even they won't overhaul for a good while yet, not until the most appropriate time.

    Believe me, I don't deny that a Merchant Navy is not ideal for most heritage railways, all I'm saying is, let's not completely disregard them because of their impracticality... Because, if we do, than what would have been the point of our heritage movement have been in the first place... Our whole movement in general isn't really practical, it's not profitable, it's not economicable, but we do it anyway... Because we are dedicated to preserving as much of our steam heritage as possible, for future generations, but most importantly, for ourselves, because we love it... and we cherish it... sometimes beyond reason... But such passion for something does that, does it not...?
     
  14. Steamage

    Steamage Part of the furniture

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    The comments about the suitablility (or otherwise) of Merchant Navy pacifics for the SVR and similar branch lines apply equally well to almost all 7P and 8P locos, with the possible exception of West Country/Battle of Britain locos, which were designed with secondary routes in mind (but are still quite expensive on coal...). Black 5s, Maunsell moguls, Manors, the various Standard 4 and 5 classes, and the like, are the ideal "large" preserved line locos. This being the case, it's great news for everyone that 80079 and the 75xxx have such a generous benfactor. However, the larger lines would be poorer places without their Kings and Castles, Dukes and Duchesses, racehorses and water fowl, admirals and shipping lines!
     
  15. Neil_Scott

    Neil_Scott Part of the furniture

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    I suspect the MNs have this reputation as being unsuitable for preserved lines because they're are so many of them left.

    We seem to appreciate our A4s, Kings, Duchesses and Princesses more than our MNs which is a little bit of a shame, but the lack of numbers in the former makes them more special. Most of the big express passenger engines from other companies spend a fair bit of time on the mainline so there doesn't seem to be the same perception that, for example, an A4 would be uneconomic because only 60007 sees any regular use on a preserved line.

    I wonder if we'd have a different attitude to Duchesses if there were 10 left instead of 3?
     
  16. JMJR1000

    JMJR1000 Member

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    Here, here! I couldn't agree more, it would be a poorer place without them.

    As for the West Country/Battle of Britain class, I suppose in terms of practicality and suitability, they are probably just at the limit. Which means that, while they are suitable for most lines, it will vary depending on several factors such as: length of line, number of coaches, gradients, etc...

    Thankfully though, it would seem that most people in the heritage steam movement would believe them to be suitable, as most of them have been restored, being put to good use on most of the major lines. Heck, there seems to be at least one light bulleid pacific at nearly every heritage railway. In fact, if I could, I would have at least one Bulleid pacific for every heritage railway out there. Can you tell I'm a big Bulleid fan yet...?
     
  17. JMJR1000

    JMJR1000 Member

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    Very true, we we're actually very close at one point to having a 4th Duchess. No. 6256 (British Railways number 46256) Sir William A. Stanier F.R.S, representing the last development of the class, came close but unfortunately didn't make...

    We could have had a 7th A4, 2509 Silver Link, but alas... Mr. Butlin just wouldn't pay the costs. Mind you, if he did buy it, then he might not have gone on to save No 6203 Princess Margaret Rose, or No 6100 Royal Scot, or of course the Duchesses: No 6233 Duchess of Sutherland and No 6229 Duchess of Hamilton... In interesting thought really...

    But back to the point, yes it would seem that large engines, certainly that of class 8 type variety, that survive in large numbers do tend to unfortunately struggle in preservation...
     
  18. John Petley

    John Petley Part of the furniture

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    It's quite interesting that this thread has digressed onto large engines such as MN's. While most of those who have commented seem to suggest that a Merchant Navy would be rather too big for the Severn Valley, going back to 1968, when a Bluebell member bought No. 75027 direct from BR, the consensus was that such an engine was far too large for a the line. (I think similar comments were made about the Worth Valley's Black Five 45212; someone correct me if I'm wrong!) Now, the tank engine equivalent of 75027 - i.e. 80079 and the 14 other survivors of the same class - are seen as the ideal locomotives for heritage railway use.
     
  19. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    Also 46243 was subject of an attempted purchase.
     
  20. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    60007 is seen as quite suitable for use on the NYMR, despite its size. Admittedly it would be far better if it was beltng along the East Coast main line at a steady 75 rather than 25 on the Moors, but it is no detriment to it. I'd imagine that an MN would be equally suitable, as have been 60163 & 71000. The only reason I don't like them is because they're less of a challenge than the class 4's. Except when you slip to a stand with the Duke, that is :doh:
     

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