Jeremy Hosking is after another BR Standard.........................

Funny you should say that. AFAIK Jeremy Hosking is a shareholder of said model railway company. So everyone who buys the "oo" models is helping JH purchase his next big 1:1 prototype!

 

the best of luck to the guy whatever he choses to do. It will be a net gain to preservation whatever it is and we all gain from him putting his hand in his pocket.

 

I agree that the SVR has got itself into an awkward position with regards to motive power, however they have had other problems in recent years that required both addressing and expense.

What I cannot agree with is opening paragraph, given Mr. Hoskins track record I think that statement is unwarranted and also unrealistic!

 

Those who are worried that Mr Hosking might remove the loco from the SVR should note that the loco is currently owned by a fund and they could decide to remove the loco at any time anyway! I know this is an unlikely situation given that the fund is made up of SVR people, but Mr Hosking seems to be giving the same kind of commitments that the current owners give, so I don't see the problem.

The loco isn't owned by the SVR and it still wouldn't be owned by the SVR, but it would be in working order (SVR gain), the overhaul (or parts of it) is likely to be done at Bridgnorth (SVR gain) and the money from the sale goes to overhaul 75069 (SVR gain).


Keith

 

Absolutely - the SVR has lost too many useful locos because they were unable to overhaul them in a time frame that the owners considered reasonable.

 

Hmmm. All very well one extremely rich man hoovering up all these locos and playing with them on the main line in the short to medium term. Thinking further out one day he is either going to get bored with them or shuffle off to the big MPD in the sky and what will happen to them then? If they are left to his family through the estate will they want to get the highest price for them? If so, a large amount of ready to run large engines will hit the market at once. There is no way thee will be enough cash in the heritage movement to swallow these up. Could we see Britannia, Bittern & Co ending up in a museum in Japan or with a private collector at his Idaho ranch? Will 6024 be the centrepiece for the Thomas restaurant in Dubai? Will Braunton end up as a Russian Oligarch's birthday present to his 10 year old son who likes trains this week?

Grim reaper gathers us all (like the tax man) and losing these engines to the four corners of the earth is a strong possibility. There is a lot of people on this planet who have more money than they could ever hope to spend and don't respect culture and heritage of another nation. £300k to one of these for a real Thomas will be nothing. Goodbye 6024....

Think about that before accepting the pretty penny.

 

See http://www.royalscot.org.uk/other-locomotives/

 

the same applies to all privately owned locos, it's really none of our business, we just have to hope that they have a secure future.

 

I see several people having a pop at the SVR saying it got itself into this hole itself.

The SVR has probably had more engines on the mainline at
one time than anyone else.
What no-one has allowed for is that in this time they have had some very talented engineers and backup volunteers.
Unfortunately we have lost many of these people, to name names of those who have passed would be depressing to say the least.
SUR has long known that this time would come and has tried to recruit from younger generations with some success.
Inevitably the work has got on top of them and overhauling locos tha have been outside for long periods makes the job so much harder. I think of the top of my head 75069 and 4150 are the last of these.
During the period 1980-2000 the SVR supplied many and varied lpcos for the main line, how many reading this remember them?
SVR engines opened the Cambrian the Central Wales line and the Conway Valley Line to steam and at various times have been seen all over the country.
The baton has now been picked up by Ian Riley Tyesley loco works and others.

David you are correct 80098 was certified for 75 MPH the event was recorded by PSOV on an evening run from Derby to Sheffield and back? not sure of this.

Cheers Dave

 

Maunsell Man IMHO that's a very blinkered argument! Yes he could end up in the MPD in the sky sooner rather than later (heaven forbid!), yes he could sell off all his assets to the highest bidder and yes the loco's could go abroad. As has already been mentioned already how does this situation differ to any other privately or trust owned loco(s)!?

To back up my opinions, firstly Jeremy Hosking is only 49/50ish I believe and yes before you counter attack I know this means very little, recent events with Dr Tony Marchington for instance, however I suspect it does make him one of the younger loco owners!

Secondly he is able to buy all these loco's because he's a very shrewd businessman, I don't think for one second that he hasn't thought about what happens when he's gone! After all he's an enthusiast the same as the rest of us, the only difference being that he can afford what the rest of us would love to be able to achieve! I'm sure he's got the hobby's best interests at heart and I'm positive he's not doing this to make money!

Thirdly he's already set up 5 of his loco's into a trust, I would expect the others will follow suit! Also his son is one of the trustee's so I assume he's also got some interest!? This is a very similar setup up to what Pete Waterman has done with his loco's.

Fourthly, one of the key objects of the trust is sustainability and preservation of skills for future generations, does this really sound like he intends to let preservation suffer adversely in the event that something happens to him?

Finally how many British steam loco's have left the country recently to take it's place on a wealthy arab's train set?

Apologies if I come across as a cynical response at times but as long as the terms suit the SVR I cannot see anybody loosing out in this situation. After all, regular Mainline workings from the SVR could be of benefit to all parties involved, perhaps a similar arrangement to the NYMR Battersby services?

Paul

 

Well, well there are some negative people on this forum this week. How many of these people have actually read the article? How many people have actually looked at the other agreements Jeremy has with other groups? It clearly states that as part of the agreement it will remain on the SVR, the same as 92212 on the Mid Hants and all the other groups who still maintain the locos e.g 6024 and 5029. Jeremy is very hands off, he likes to own the locos but is happy to delegate the running of the locos to the volunteers - in this case the group are based on the SVR.
At the end of the day both 80079 and 75069 are knackered and even if the SVR did have the money and capacity they would be down the list. This agreement will see both back much quicker and of use to the SVR who are in a pretty desperate state as far as motive power is concerned TBH.
Some on here also seem to have short memories. 80079 was a fairly regular performer on the mainline for 20 years, operating at up to 75mph in tandem with 80098and covered over 150,000 miles in SVR and mainline service. She saw out two boiler certificates and is sorely missed, she certainly wasn't 'wrecked inside 2 years' and ran quite regularly on the big railway in the late 90's. She was very tired after 20 years mind you! This agreement will see two useful and popular engines back for the SVR and in 80079's case the mainline, where she is extremely capable. Good luck to Jeremy, you have brought much good fortune to many locos now and certainly don't deserve the suspicion that is being levelled on here. If it wasn't for him a number of (some big name) locos would be looking at very uncertain futures right now.

 

What I said was not an argument or intended to enflame but is simply a risk. Lots of eggs all in one basket. And its a basket that is getting bigger and bigger. It is a risk that any loco will end up abroad but should something happen to him there maybe a lot of locos coming onto the market at once and at prices that are adjudged to be commercial. I never suggested he was a bad guy at all, nor had the longer term hadn't been planned. Its a risk and its a notable one as well. I never mentioned Tony Marchington deliberately. Look what happened after his financial meltdown. 4472 was on the open market for sale to the highest bidder and went for £2.31million (IIRC). Could have gone anywhere. Imagine 7 (or whatever his fleet is) engines going for that price? Where are they going to land up?

As was said he may have trusts set up to look after them after his withdrawal in which case the risk diminishes but doesn't disappear.

This isn't negative talk its plain common sense to look beyond the next 20 years. We are only custodians of these machines. I would rather see the 4MT sitting in the engine house on display for 20 years than run in the corporate Hosking fleet then sold to an oligarch after its owner has died never to be seen again.

 

Yes I agree there is an element of risk, however I believe there is much more uncertainty in our hobby as a whole than there is in the Hosking fleet, potential closing of preserved railways for instance due to lack of volunteers. IMHO Jeremy Hosking is one of preservations current success stories. I appreciate that things change but I still believe Mr Hosking's actions are adding to the sustainability of our hobby and not to the risk of it being lost. Hopefully I'll still be able to confirm this and stand by my thoughts in 50 years time! I certainly don't intend to end up in that MPD in the sky anytime soon!

 

Mr Hosking maybe a business man but he is also an enthusiast, anyone who saw his speach at the launch of Dominion of New Zealand could clearly see that. Surely the launch of the Royal Scot Trust is an indication of his intentions for the future and the security of his loco fleet? What we must all be grateful for is his enthusiasm and willingness to inject some cold hard cash into locos at a time when it is severely limited. Because of him we are able to enjoy 4492, 70000, 6024, 5029 and next year 34046 and (maybe!) even 6100 on the mainline and 6960 & 92212 on heritage lines. That is a substantial part of the current mainline fleet I hasten to add. Where would these locos be without him?

 

Or main line steam in general!!

 

Agree totally with the thought he has done untold good for the movement. That isn't in question. When I originally posted on this thread it was a cautionary message. If there is a problem with a group, owner, train mad philanthropist who own a single loco that one loco could be lost. If that one group, owner, train mad philanthropist hits the dust but owns a large collection of very important locos many of which are historically irreplaceable the loss will be catastrophic. The Hosking collection grows ever bigger and the contents are all top-notch machines with pedigrees.

With every business there is a risk of poor governance, poor management, fraud, deception and parties from within not having the wellbeing of the organisation at their heart. Mr Hosking and his trusts are not immune from this. Trusts can dispose of assets, laws can be bent. Im not an expert on charity and trust governance but things happen and collections get broken up and disposed off. Mr Marchington lost 4472 and so too nearly did the nation. Look what has happened at Bressingham. This collection was handed over to a trust and several of its principle assets have been lost to try to keep the business afloat after several poor decisions were made.

Im not for one minute knocking Mr Hosking who I would guess is a fabulous bloke. There is two sides to every decision and every argument and both should be considered carefully.

 

Better tell Didcot there is a GWR 47 out there........
Typo I guess....

 

With 5ft 8 Inch drivers its going to be limited to 60mph im afraid but with 18ton axle load its going to be handy for certain routes... cambrian ?
Again a 'water guv' and a coal dump could be utilized to increase range
The std 4 tank is a pretty usefull loco for any preserved railway and if JH is truly a steam philanthropists, having one in his stable to loan out to needy heritage lines is a fine move... Wonder what kind of engine would tickle his fancy new build wise, a standard 2-8-2 ?

 

Good news, but it does raise the serious question as to whether the SVR is now capable "financially" of undertaking a major overhaul of a loco that does not have the substantial backing of an enthusiast group behind it. ("substantial" meaning "money raising"). The likes of the Friends of Hagley Hall, the Erlestoke Manor Fund, the 42968 group, and the 2857 group who did as much volunteer work as was possible during the recently completed overhaul.

A cause for serious concern in my opinion.