If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

Jacobite 2015

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by mike1522, Mar 24, 2015.

  1. Waterbuck

    Waterbuck Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2009
    Messages:
    769
    Likes Received:
    332
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    West Yorkshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Jacobite 13.09.2015.jpg
    45407 crosses the River Lochy near Old Inverlochy Castle with last Mondays returning Jacobite to Fort William.
     
    black5 and RalphW like this.
  2. MellishR

    MellishR Part of the furniture Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    Messages:
    6,051
    Likes Received:
    3,696
    Seeing that picture of tender-first running (which I know is currently unavoidable) makes me wonder whether one or more BR standard 2-6-4 tanks wouldn't be more suitable locos for the Jacobite duty, if WCRC could beg, borrow or steal (or, more realistically, hire) them.
     
  3. 26D_M

    26D_M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2009
    Messages:
    4,416
    Likes Received:
    1,680
    On the face of it they would seem potentially well suited to the Jacobite - 75014 did several seasons and the tanks should have a better adhesion - but sadly there are no certified examples these days. Its always been my assumption that there must be an operational reason, affecting the getting them to FW too, such as coal/water capacity that would preclude Std4 tanks.
     
  4. jonathonag

    jonathonag Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2006
    Messages:
    1,471
    Likes Received:
    2,347
    Occupation:
    Railway Engineer
    Location:
    Cowdenbeath
    It must also be noted that, apart from the odd service or two during the final week of operations, The Jacobite runs with 7 Mk1's throughout on the morning service, and a mix of 6 Mk1's and Mk2's on the evening service (air braked).

    When 76079 was up a few years ago, she could just handle 6 and no more. In an area with high rainfall, and sections with some leaf fall in Autumn, I suspect most Standard's mentioned would be unsuitable for The Jacobite.
     
  5. 26D_M

    26D_M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2009
    Messages:
    4,416
    Likes Received:
    1,680
    That's true and its acknowledged a black 5 is pretty much flat out on some of the climbs, notably out of Glenfinnan and Beasdale I'm told. How comparable is the NYMR and its use of standard 4s? Does 80135 routinely take 8 mk1 when it's in service?
     
  6. RalphW

    RalphW Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Friend

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2005
    Messages:
    33,074
    Likes Received:
    7,240
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired-ish, Part time rail tour steward.
    Location:
    Northwich
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I wonder if with there being two steam operated trains every day, the leaf fall is not such a problem as when a there is perhaps just one steam hauled service a week?
     
  7. jonathonag

    jonathonag Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2006
    Messages:
    1,471
    Likes Received:
    2,347
    Occupation:
    Railway Engineer
    Location:
    Cowdenbeath
    Would be a bit difficult to compare, as the afternoon Jacobite service season tends to the last week of August, a good month before leaves start becoming a worry in the area.
     
  8. Ian Riley

    Ian Riley Member Loco Owner

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2005
    Messages:
    2,520
    Likes Received:
    470
    WCR are quiet happy with the locomotives and 'back-up' as supplied at present with NELPG and Riley Locomotives........why should they wish to change the formula just to please the photographers?
    The Jacobite trains are not run for enthusiasts or train spotters, they are full nearly 100% every train that is operated with tourists...its a business for both WCR and their suppliers...end off...don't get me wrong, I enjoy the Photo Charter specials, but lets get the supply and demand into perspective......along with the desired end product?
     
    Tony172, maureen, mike1522 and 4 others like this.
  9. RalphW

    RalphW Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Friend

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2005
    Messages:
    33,074
    Likes Received:
    7,240
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired-ish, Part time rail tour steward.
    Location:
    Northwich
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Quite, it's the old story, unless it's a photo charter, the income from them is zero, and that does not pay the bills.
    The Jacobite formula ain't broke so don't bother to change it.
     
    Martin Perry likes this.
  10. jsm8b

    jsm8b Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2014
    Messages:
    2,134
    Likes Received:
    3,349
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Escapee from the corporate bear-pit
    Location:
    Shropshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Somewhere in the depths of my memory I'm sure the use of 2-6-4 tanks was thought about back in the early years of the Mallaig trains or was it just a Steam Railway fantasy....
    If it had been a viable option for the line would BR not have tried it in the 50s and 60s ?
     
  11. jonathonag

    jonathonag Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2006
    Messages:
    1,471
    Likes Received:
    2,347
    Occupation:
    Railway Engineer
    Location:
    Cowdenbeath
    I imagine 26D_M is querying the use of Standards due to the tender cut outs providing greater sight when running tender first.

    But as you say Ian, the forumla is well worked and yourself, your team, NELPG and WCRC should be congrtulated on it's success and that with every new initiative brought in (longer seasons, afternoon trains etc) have only seen it grow stronger.
    As James mentioned last year, the rumoured Winter Jacobites in a magazine couldn't work as stock needs maintenance at some point. But I'm betting if somebody placed 7 Mk1's up there for you, we'd still be seeing a full train over Glenfinnan Viaduct on the 24th December....
     
  12. 26D_M

    26D_M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2009
    Messages:
    4,416
    Likes Received:
    1,680
    Think you've missed the point Ian. MellishR was speculating about the potential operational suitability of class 4 tanks to eliminate tender first running. As was I. Nowt to do with whether a tank looks better going backwards in a picture.
    It ain't going to happen but you could always give us the benefit of your considerable driving experience as to whether the hypothesis that a 4mtt would be up to it, in theory.
     
  13. Steamage

    Steamage Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2005
    Messages:
    4,667
    Likes Received:
    1,034
    Location:
    Oxford
    On this occassion, I don't think the query about Std 4 tanks was "just to please photographers". Rather, the picture of the tender-first loco prompted someone to wonder, given the tender-first distance run every day, whether tank locos would have operational advantages over tender locos. I think we've come up with a number of reasons why they're probably not a good proposition on The Jacobite.

    @Ian Riley - I'd be interested to know how much of a problem tender-first running actually is on the West Highland Extension? Have you ever thought of trying a smaller tender, as used on the 76xxx or 75xxx? Or is it not that big an issue?

    (Oops! rather a lot of people responding - please don't feel we're getting at you, Ian ;-) )
     
  14. 26D_M

    26D_M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2009
    Messages:
    4,416
    Likes Received:
    1,680
    Where has changing Jacobite locos been suggested to please photographers?
    Idle speculation about theoretical suitability of tanks is all I read.
     
  15. Ian Riley

    Ian Riley Member Loco Owner

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2005
    Messages:
    2,520
    Likes Received:
    470
    Jon, and WCR have not dismissed the idea!..;)
     
  16. 26D_M

    26D_M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2009
    Messages:
    4,416
    Likes Received:
    1,680
    Not as such, just that the tanks were designed to run bunker first as much as forwards. Ian knows far better than me the drawbacks of tender first compared to a 2-6-4t running backwards on a route with tight curves.
    There is no implied criticism of any aspect of the Jacobite. It deservedly goes from strength to strength. Now if a Crab could be made available on the other hand .........
     
  17. RalphW

    RalphW Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Friend

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2005
    Messages:
    33,074
    Likes Received:
    7,240
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired-ish, Part time rail tour steward.
    Location:
    Northwich
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I don't know but I didn't say it.:confused:
     
  18. 61624

    61624 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2006
    Messages:
    4,256
    Likes Received:
    2,238
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I wonder if there would be a water capacity problem with 2-6-4Ts.
     
  19. 26D_M

    26D_M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2009
    Messages:
    4,416
    Likes Received:
    1,680
    That's what I would have assumed as there were main line approved tanks in the West Highlander and early Jacobite days but never deployed, even though 75014 was a mainstay. Coal and water for the journey to FW might be problematic too unless in light steam piloted.
     
  20. MellishR

    MellishR Part of the furniture Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    Messages:
    6,051
    Likes Received:
    3,696
    Oops, misunderstanding! I wasn't thinking of photographers at all, but the drivers and firemen.

    Edit: When I posted this I had somehow failed to see several posts from others making the same point. I've only just (Thurs evening) had another look at this thread and seen them.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2015
    26D_M likes this.

Share This Page