Isle of Wight Steam Railway Carriage and Wagon updates

After receiving a new roof canvas and full repaint, LBSCR 9 compartment third 2416 returned to passenger service on Tuesday 18th July 2017. Immaculate in SR malachite green livery, 2416's return is just in time for the high season period and brings the number of currently operational bogie carriages up to four - all LBSCR. The IWSR's three SECR bogie carriages are currently out of service undergoing major underframe repairs.

More details and pictures can be seen on the C&W Facebook page.

 

Great news, is 4115 imminent too? A 7 carriage rake of 4 wheelers is going to look seriously impressive.

 

Still more to do before 4115 can enter traffic, work tends to be prioritised towards keeping the working fleet in traffic this time of year. 4115 can be seen on display in Train Story at the moment. It does look very good and, as you suggest, the seven car Victorian set will be a very impressive achievement!

 

Just out of interest, what length would a prototypical 4 wheeler rake had been on the Isle of Wight Central Railway? as the most likily motive power would have been a Beyer Peacock 2-4-0 T by the time terriers would have been availible on the secondhand market, would most of the main routes ( Ryde-Cowes, Ryde -Ventor ) had recieved bogie coaches?

 

In the later years the Ryde Ventnor trains were 6 bogies, so I would imagine that in the 4 wheel era they would have loaded up to 12.

 

I'm imagining that the 4 wheels predated the arrival of the 02'S, so what was the most powerful locos on the central at the time, could a Beyer 2-4-0 haul 12 4 wheelers?

 

If they were Oldburys then yes I am sure they could.

 

its a pity that there is no replica Beyer Peacock 2-4-0-T''s then you could hang as many 4 wheelers as you can on the draw hook and find out add an dead engine , or 2 to bring the weight up, lol

 

Bogie coaches did not appear in large numbers (other then Met 8 wheelers) until the mid 30s, most 4 wheel trains that I can find photos of appear to be 8 vehicles with o2 and Beyer peacock haulage..

 

Actually the first O2s arrived soon after grouping (still in LSWR livery) when most Island carriages were 4 wheelers, with only a few bogies and some rigid 8 wheelers.

Not only did many of these soldier on under SR ownership for years, but the initial replacements were yet more 4 wheelers - IIRC it wasn't until the late 20s that bogie vehicles started arriving en masse.

8 (plus luggage van) on Ryde-Ventnor services does appear to have been the normal maximum, having flicked through the superb Maycock & Silsbury books. A good example is this photo showing 8 NLR 4 wheelers (& van?) behind an O2.

The only exceptions I can recall are a photo of a 14(!) carriage excursion to Freshwater (hauled by the contractor's loco, later the WC&P's Portishead), and an 11-coach Cowes Week train around 1920 - that one was double headed by a Beyer 2-4-ot and the 4-4-oT No6.

 

The IWCR bequeathed an "interesting" assortment of carriage stock to the Southern. The only stock bought new was composed of the 4 original Cowes & Newport Rly (Wright & Co 1862, wdn immediately by the SR), two bogie vehicles by Lancaster C&W in 1889. Three four wheelers from Metropolitan C&W(1872) and three from Bristol C&W(1875) built for the Isle of Wight Newport Jnc Rly also succumbed at grouping, without carrying SR numbers allocated.

The remaining stock in 1923 consisted of one ex-MR bogie, built for Settle & Carlisle services in 1876, purchased for use as a railmotor (!) in 1907, shorn of clerestory in 1917, at the same time 6w bogies were replaced with 4w ones, there was one Hurst Nelson saloon, bought new as railmotor No1 in 1906, seperated from the engine unit in 1913 (this vehicle was fitted with an ex LSW bogie, leaving it with one 8ft and one 7ft bogie!). The four bogie vehicles lasted the longest. The rest comprised 4w stock, and was an assortment of GER LSW & NLR cast-offs of varying roof level and appearance. My personal favourite was IWC No12 (SR4098), a 1 comp brake vehicle of uncertain provenance (I suspect it was a 'bitsa', with bodywork recycled from stock involved in a prang at Clapham in LSW days. It certainly doesn't fit any description in Weddell's tome on LSW stock). Sometimes, a train might even have presented a near uniform appearance!

For my money, the really interesting stuff, an assortment of (very) early LNW 'stagecoach' stock vanished when Charles L Conacher's regime took over in 1896 and brought some semblance of order to the 'Central'. The C&N also bought some serious antiques from the LSW looking like what would be produced if the Talyllyn Lancaster 4 wheeler mated with a garden shed and certainly withdrawn well before the turn of the century.

I'd recommend Maycock & Ried's "Isle of Wight Steam Passenger Rolling Stock", Oakwood X59 (ISBN 0 85361 507 1 Pub.1997) as an excellent starting point.

 

Thank you for the very interesting answers, i hope its not too much thread drag, , i always thought that the island railways were shoestring affairs, buying second hand , i never realised just how poor they were, it looks like the grouping saved them, with the Southern almost re-equipping the entire island network.

 

Having had a closer look at the Maycock & Silsbury book it does state that by the 1880s the IWR's normal formation "seems to have been eight assorted carriages with one luggage van and a brake van" but that photos show much longer trains on occasion, and there is indeed a cropped photo of a Ventnor train showing at least 10 carriages behind a Beyer, so probably 11+ vehicles.

You can also clearly see a 12-coach train behind an 02 in this 1928 aerial photo of Ryde Pier: https://britainfromabove.org.uk/en/image/EPW023011

Which, very conveniently, I read for the first time only last week! A truly fascinating subject.

The following archive film helps illustrate how old and varied the carriage fleet was even in the 30s - is that one of the old IWC railmotor carriages working the Bembridge branch at 3:36?

 

Indeed so

Paul H

 

Other than the IWR (Ryde-Shanklin-Ventnor, plus the Bembridge branch), which was comparatively prosperous, during summertime anyway, you're correct. If you think the rolling stock situation was bad, the PW situation was even worse. The IWNJ line was originally part laid with ex-LSW double-headed rail, upturned. The Board of Trade were not impressed! Most of the Sandown to Newport line opened (suitably relaid) in 1875, but the last 1/2 mile between Pan Lane and Newport couldn't be completed until 1879.

A close inspection of the very light rail shows it was fastened to the sleepers by fang bolts through the foot of the rail. Hours of fun for modellers, there! On takeover by the Southern, the new regime immediately banished IWC nos 6 & 7 (A handsome Black Hawthorn 4-4-0t bought new in 1890 & an ex-MSWJR BP 2-4-0t) to IWR metals, so it's probably just as well that the overweight ex-Marquess of Londonderry's Rly (Seaham Co Durham), IWC No2, had been flogged to the government towards the end of WWI.

The survival of so many "Terrier" locos in island service until the 30s is directly due to the time taken for the SR to replace track with heavier (still second-hand of course) bull-head rail. The Ventnor West and Freshwater lines were last to be upgraded.

 

Of course it helped that the Southern had large quantities of firstly non-bogie, then bogie, carriages to send over. L.C.D.R. stock had two particular advantages namely A. being highly standardised and B. being made of the best Burma teak. Odd that the two best known survivors which form Ventnor West Set No. 484 are most atypical in being saloons.

Holiday business on the I.O.W. increased. aided by most effective management from the late twenties but well run though the system became, it cannot have made any money. Local trade disappeared to the buses whilst the equipment needed to cope with peak summer demand spent most of the year under utilised but having to be kept serviceable.

Paul H

 

Even with regard to bus competition, the Southern showed great foresight, sensibly buying the Southern Vectis Omnibus Company in 1929. Of course, it was (like Sir Herbert's Southern), too good to last!

 

Fantastic old footage! The ex-LBSC/LSW/FYN Terrier dates it well, as it still carries it's original SR No W2 . This is the great survivor which still graces the IWSR as W8.

Identifying the old island stock (other than the converted railmotor.... good spot!) will keep me occupied for hours. The loss of IWR 2-4-0t"Ryde" in the WWII scrap drive was a very great shame.

 

It was a good idea but, for once, Sir Herbert did not get the details right.

The Southern Railway bought out the Vectis Omnibus company but instead of paying cash, they handed out shares in the new Southern Vectis Company to the previous proprietors. In due course the previous proprietors sold their shares to a bus group. Thus the Southern got their competition back but in a more formidable form.

Did the S.R. think that by this method they were getting something for nothing? Or was it simply a matter of not having the cash?

PH

 

As a consolation, both of her nameplates survive in the Havenstreet Museum, together with her W13 bunker plate.

PH