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Isle Of Man Steam Railway

Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by David Bigcheeseplant, Jun 11, 2016.

  1. marshall5

    marshall5 Well-Known Member

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    Apparently No14 went south yesterday - see Edit.. Down at Port Erin decontaminated No16 has had its tanks and cab replaced and now is stored at the back of Port Erin engine shed. No6 has moved from the museum to the carriage shed ready to be moved to Port St.Mary for decontamination after No5. There are some photos of No16 and info on next week's virtual HTF on the Heritage Railways Volunteers Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/hrviom/
    Ray.
    Edit - possibly to IoMSP ferry?
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2020
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  2. paullad1984

    paullad1984 Member

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    Good lord, so there is hope for 14 yet? She's been so long out of the limelight it would be nice if money could be found/raised for her overhaul. I know she's limited as to what she can do but to see a small peacock, with salter valves to boot, running again would truly add an extra pleasure to the railway. Restored to MNR livery even better, though I understand this firmly falls into the WIBN category. I await photos with anticipation.
     
  3. marshall5

    marshall5 Well-Known Member

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    I have heard various rumors of where No14 might be going for restoration. If/when Thornhill is restored it would not surprise me at all to see it in Manx Northern livery as the owner is an MNR devotee.
    Ray.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2020
  4. Rob Reynolds

    Rob Reynolds New Member

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    It really is an astonishing time. What will be coming back next? Mr Sheard?
     
  5. marshall5

    marshall5 Well-Known Member

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    My 'lockdown' project was to begin scanning some 8ooo slides dating back to 1969. The pictures of N45 returning to the IMR reminded me of one of the scans which showed 4 of the Cleminsons awaiting disposal at St. Johns in April 1975 and can be seen in the first photo below. Of the 12 Cleminsons the IMR absorbed very few saw much use after WW2 and spent most of their time in "Harry Cubbon's Wing" i.e. the siding along the north side of the carriage shed. An ex MNR G van can also be seen as well as some of the 'Pairs' bodies taken from their underframes in 1967 for Lord Ailsa's abortive 'Mantainor' scheme. The second scan shows half of F55 on the former Douglas bound platform which is also being used by Millen Metals to stack rails lifted from the Peel and Ramsey lines. The last one shows the interior of St.Johns carriage shed with 'Big Brake' F42 nearest the camera. Whilst the derelict carriages outside were subject to a controlled burn it was an arson attack later in 1975 that destroyed the 'stored serviceable' carriages inside the shed.
    Hope they are of interest,
    Ray.
    IMR Cleminsons St.Johns Apr 1975.jpg IMR  St.Johns Apr 1975.jpg IMR F42 St.Johns carriage shed Apr 1975.jpg
     
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  6. MuzTrem

    MuzTrem Member

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    Thank you Ray - yes, very much so!

    A couple of questions have occurred to me since the restored Cleminson broke cover. Firstly, is the varnished teak livery authentic? I had always understood that the MNR used plum-and-spilt-milk livery, as currently carried by the Foxdale coach. The ones in your photo seem to show traces of red paint so presumably they recieved red-and-cream livery after the war?

    Secondly, the restored coach doesn't seem to feature vacuum brake equipment - I presume this was never fitted? Would it even be possible to fit automatic brakes to a Cleminson coach? (IIRC the NWNGR concluded that their examples couldn't be adapted when the requirement for automatic brakes came in.) If not that would obviously be a barrier to any restored example ever being used in passenger service!
     
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  7. marshall5

    marshall5 Well-Known Member

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    According to Hendry's 'Manx Northern Railway' the Cleminsons were, indeed, delivered in varnished teak but some time before 1900 they were repainted in L&NW style. They never received IMR post-war red/cream but remained in all over economy brown (a sort of red oxide colour) until withdrawn as were some of the 'pairs'. They were never vac fitted or even through piped. Under current regs fitting a through pipe would be adequate although the Cleminson would have to be marshalled 'inside' a vac-fitted vehicle as we do with the restored freight stock these days.
    Cheers,
    Ray.
     
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  8. MuzTrem

    MuzTrem Member

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    Many thanks Ray - you are a mine of information as ever! The teak livery certainly looks very handsome - a complete take of such coaches, with an MNR loco at the head, must have been a splendid sight indeed.

    Sent from my SM-A320FL using Tapatalk
     
  9. Allan Thomson

    Allan Thomson New Member

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    Perhaps now is a good time to try to establish a group to purchase and repatriate 7 & the other Cleminson because plans at Southwold obviously do not appear to have materialised over 7 years?

    Anyone interested in a serious attempt to fund raise and enter into a constructive dialogue with the owner?
     
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  10. marshall5

    marshall5 Well-Known Member

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    Whilst I strongly disagreed with the owners' decision to remove No7 and N42 from the Island and very concerned to see the carriage rotting away in the open at Weeting for several years it returned to Southwold in Jan 2019 where restoration now appears to be taking place https://www.southwoldrailway.co.uk/category/rolling-stock/carriage-restoration/
    If the Cleminson was for sale, and I don't believe it is, I know of several other people who would be interested in repatriating it. As regards the frames of No7, which may be still dumped at Weeting, I'm not sure what use it would be - other than a WIBN.
    Ray.
     
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  11. Allan Thomson

    Allan Thomson New Member

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  12. Allan Thomson

    Allan Thomson New Member

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    Well 7 could be rebuilt with other life expired parts to form another loco for cosmetic display, although I guess at the moment the asbestos issue finally being solved means there are other potentials for display.

    About 4 years back I had a face to face conversation with RPH & he was open to the potential for 7 to be returned. He was convinced that he had a clear possibility for the Cleminson and so wouldn't consider at that point a return to island, but it is unclear as to whether it was sat in a field at that point?
     
  13. bantamd14

    bantamd14 New Member

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    Is there any confirmation that 14 has moved South yet please?
     
  14. marshall5

    marshall5 Well-Known Member

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    If it was 4 years ago then it would still have been in the field at Weeting. Since Jan. last year it has been back at Southwold - but still outside unlike when it was here. I believe that N42 was the one in the best condition when sold to RPH & Co. as it had spent most of its time inside at St.Johns while (most of?) the others were outside. Even so, when it left the Island, there was concern over the deteriorated state of one of the main chassis members and I doubt that 9 years outside has improved its condition. If the owners or Southwold ever contemplate putting the carriage into traffic its not going to be a cheap restoration.
    Ray.
     
  15. Rob Reynolds

    Rob Reynolds New Member

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    My understanding is that at one point the Southwold Railway considered restoring Tynwald. Now they have a replica Sharp Stewart locomotive being built and expect it to be delivered next year. This would seem to make Tynwald neither use nor ornament to them. Disposing of it would free up some cash that they can use on other, more useful, projects. While it may be no use to the IOM, it would certainly be an ornament. Perhaps to one of the museums. The House of Manannan is built around the former Peel station and yet it devotes more space to kippers than it does the railway. They might find a space for it. Still you not only have to buy the frames, but then ship them back to the island. Would we be looking at thousands of pounds in total?

    If restoring the Cleminson is cheaper than acquiring a carriage by other means, they may consider it is still useful to them.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2020
  16. marshall5

    marshall5 Well-Known Member

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    Unless something has changed both No7 and the Cleminson still belong to Robert Hendry's '3ft. Gauge Society' formerly 'The IoM Railway and Tramway Preservation Society' and 'Isle of Man Railway Society'. AFAIK the items are only 'on loan' to Southwold. Whilst the Cleminson, after an expensive restoration, might be of some use to the IMR I can't see much use for No7 other than as a 'station ornament' but others may see it differently.
    Ray.
     
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  17. marshall5

    marshall5 Well-Known Member

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    The IMR re-started its abbreviated 2020 timetable R yesterday which is a 2 train service with No8 Fenella based in Port Erin and No15 (MNR 4) Caledonia based in Douglas. No 13 Kissack is also available. The weather was much improved today and trains were, again,well patronized by locals and some of our visitors from Guernsey. The boiler from No9 and the reconditioned 'spare' boiler ex No10 have been placed on the large bogie well wagon on road 0 in Douglas station. The restored Cleminson carriage is temporarily stored in the running shed. The first photo shows No8 Fenella (1894) preparing to depart on the 11.50. The railway museum adjacent to Port Erin Station (the former goods shed and bus garage) is open when trains are running and the cosmetically restored No1 Sutherland (1873) can be seen in the 2nd photo. Its magnificently presented footplate can be boarded by museum visitors. In Port Erin carriage shed No5 Mona (1874) is now ready to be moved down to Port St.Mary for asbestos abatement whilst a few more bits of No6 Peveril (1876) require removal/freeing off before it can go. The virtual Heritage Transport Festival starts next week as do the Diner trains.
    Ray.
    IMG_1995a IMR No8 on 11.50 ex Douglas 24th July 2020.JPG IMG_1996a IMR No1 in Port Erin Museum.JPG IMG_1997a No 1 Sutherland's cab interior.JPG IMG_1998a IMR Nos 6 & 5 in Port Erin Carriage shed.JPG IMG_1999a IMR No5 Mona in Port Erin carriage shed..JPG
     
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  18. Paul_Turner

    Paul_Turner New Member

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    Is the boiler off 9 as part of the asbestos work?
    Paul
     
  19. marshall5

    marshall5 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, apparently it was easier to do the stripping with the boiler out of the frames. At the moment the chassis is still in PSM but will come out to allow 5 or 6 (whichever is chosen to go next) in.
    Ray.
     
  20. marshall5

    marshall5 Well-Known Member

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