Heritage Line Loco Power Requirements

Simon,

Good opportunity to agree that the MHR has made great strides lately. You won't find better gardens or a more accomplished new building than the upside shelter at Ropley anywhere,

I can never see why the Dartmouth Steam Railway gets the stick in gricer circles it does. Apart from the tendency to sprinkle names around locos. and carriages, plenty of places that consider themselves "heritage " are no better. Could it be on account of their showing what size of motive power is really needed?

Paul

 

You've got your railways crossed and the numbers are miles. . The NYMR climbs about 170m.
Back to Your loco and boiler requirements. You've already said you need sox locks. You'll also need four boiler storage, two at each end. Thatw a lot of kit to replace two loco.

 

I agree the MHR is a picture in the main. As regards livery, I think the ethos is to present the stations in different guises for different periods. 925 may not fit in some ways but it would look great with a rake of Southen coaches and that's not far off now. One way the MHR really scores is the accesibility of the yards and workshops. Both C&W and loco works have galleries and thanks to the footbridge (which really shouldn't fit in but does, although the height of the parapet is unfortunate) you can see so much of what's going on and have a circular perambulation of the whole site. Contrast with some other places where you can see very little other than the operating train. Llangollen and Toddington for instance

 

Toddington yard does have a viewing area, although I grant you it is a bit hit and miss as to whether much is on show, especially depending on if the shed doors are open or not!

There was some talk about a viewing area for C+W some time ago, but because we're such a large department it's difficult to provide any meaningful access. However we do open every gala and if you ask nicely we'll probably take you round the yard as well.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

 

You might also find that the length of the NYMR is 18 miles and that works out at about 29 km

 

There is one currently in ticket at the Scottish Industrial Railway Centre. Next scheduled to be working on 27 August.

http://www.scottishindustrialrailwaycentre.org.uk/steam-days/4586273115

 

Aren't we (in most cases at least) speaking of replacements for fireboxes dating from BR days? You'd have to hope even a steel firebox would last more than 10 years!

I can't speak for those operators of Bulleid's locos during the preservation era, but do recall a lot about ATI (or was it AIT?) water treatment being used on the Southern.

Another expense with the Bulleid pacifics comes from the use of thermic syphons, as these live in a particularly hostile environment. I note that there have been several replacements fabricated of late.

All the foregoing represents work which would've been considered beyond the expertise of the heritage sector not so very long ago. Some lost arts are clearly not as lost as others...Resourceful bunch, these engineering types!

 

The Diesel shed is sometimes open and that's impressive but on the whole the Toddington experience isn't wonderful for the visitor who'd like to see a bit more. Sorry.

 

What is mass and max pressure of the locomotive?

 

Let me calculate in total train mass lumps of 100 tons.
Train runs 30 km each way with a rolling resistance of let us say .5%.This is eqvivalent to lifting train 150 meter
This needs 150 MJ or 42 kWh.
To lift train to 170m we also need 42 kWh.
If hump is in midle we have used 21kWh for rolling and 42 for lifting and do not supply energy for going down and move air resistance 21Kwh away but have 42 in EnergyBank of Yorkshire .This will cover air resistance going down (me think).
Something like 84 kWh will take 100 tons to the top and then coast down.
Trip last two hours.
Let us asume a three locomotive/two roundboilerhouse(one at each end) with turntable scenario with one set of carriages giving train mass of 300 tons
One locomotive moves train from end to end and uses (very conservative guess) 20 kg of less than 20 bar steam for each kWh needed.
About 5 tons steam per journey.
The loco uncouples at end of journey and is turned and changed for a fresh locomotive that has had two hours to digest 5 tons of steam .
Interesting to look at for spectators
A 20bar 2.5 tons steam/hour stationary with constant load boiler is no big deal.
2-10-0s with rotten boilers beware.

 

I think it was TIA - Treatment Integral Armand, a French system that used briquettes.

Experience on the NYMR and KWVR has shown that steel fireboxes do not last anywhere near as long as copper ones, but then they are a lot cheaper. Perhaps with better water treatment they would last longer.

 

it is, not the point though

 

Kind comments about the Mid-Hants. I wasnt fishing. We have a siding at Alton that is a bit linear scrapyard, but these days we are lucky enough to be able to hide most of our less attractive items "off-stage" in the Alresford fiddle yard (sorry carriage sidings). The galleries are very popular. It is odd how the bridge "fits". I suppose it is partly because it is a railway bridge, and that it serves a real purpose. The height of the parapet was a design decision taken a loooong time before it came to us, and it's very irritating unless you take a folding chair!

 

I don't have any details for that one (Barclay 1952/1928), but there are some details for the similar Barclay 2243/1948 which worked at Quainton Road in their virtual stock book: http://www.brc-stockbook.co.uk/2243.htm

There are also some general notes on how it was used here: http://www.brc-stockbook.co.uk/fireless.htm

 

Hello Robin and thank You
Take it to Whitby and see how much it can pull to the top keeping the schedule.
Announce testing time and me and my welsh corgi will be there.

 

Yep.... that's the one. Right letters, wrong order! Recall that at the Lynton & Barnstaple auction, one of the Manning Wardles went for less than t'others, due to it's steel firebox. £52 for one of the three with a copper box doesn't sound a lot these days. I'd bet someone has spent more than that on postage, whilst trying to track "Lew" down!
(Wonder if you'd get good enough odds from the bookies to cover repatriation costs if anyone does actually find it? Howzat for thread drift!!)

 

regarding the footbridge, I think it works because it is almost off the "stage", it doesn't intrude upon the scene, my poor knees though, having to kneel to get photos, not having a folding chair.

 

If I were to dust off my thesis for my PhD in the bleedin obvious....................

1. To paraphrase CJ (The Fall & Rise of Reginald Perrin) we didn't get where we are today without looking at the costs of what we do.
2. The operational lines and locos we have are, for the most part an accident of history. While there are undoubtedly lines, locos & coaches we would rather have saved, the fact is that they weren't.................. The challenge is to make the best of what we have

 

Interesting comments as always Steve. I get the sense that many major railways, whether by accident or design, seem to try to run much tighter than the margin you suggest. Notable in that context that the aforementioned law of sod has struck Swanage a double whammy with the result they appear to be running a diesel-only service at the moment right in the middle of the school holidays; and the WSR also seem to be running an amended service with reduced steam.

I'm sure both lines will recover from what are hopefully temporary blips in availability, but clearly if such shortages became endemic, it isn't good for an industry that - when all is said and done, markets itself on being a predominantly steam service - to suffer an inability to deliver steam. That in turn suggests more contingency is required (for example, a four-train line needing 7 or 8 locos in traffic rather than trying to cope with only 5 or 6) but then the question is whether that extra availability is deliverable, in either cash or skills resource availability?

Tom