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GWSR General Discussion and Operations

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by michaelh, Aug 25, 2013.

  1. Steve

    Steve Part of the furniture Friend

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    Obviously not into model railways. A reversing loop is one where the train enters in one direction and goes round a balloon shaped loop and comes out in the opposite direction to which it entered. There is a perfect example at Dungeness on the RH&DR.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2020
  2. mdewell

    mdewell Member

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    I'm no builder, but obviously beams on the outer curve will need to be longer than beams on the inner curve, so even if you don't use curved beams you are still going to have additional design work required to get the length of each beam right. What are they going to roof it with (imagine trying to lay corrugated sheeting in a arc. . . ). It's not that difficult to see why a curved structure is likely to cost more.
     
  3. Robin

    Robin Member

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    I’m sure I came across the suggestion recently that the SVR would no longer be allowed to build the carriage shed at Kidderminster in its current form because of the curve in it. I can’t remember where I heard or read it, or whether it was down to planning permission, health and safety or some other reason, so all a bit vague I'm afraid. I'm sure any plans the GWSR has will take such things into account.
     
  4. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    I believe (but am open to correction) that the Bluebell’s carriage storage shed at Horsted Keynes has cost thus far somewhere in the region of £400k, with a bit more work to do on the fit-out of the associated Heritage Skills Centre, but the basic structure essentially there. That is 4 roads * 5 full length carriages long for storage, plus a fifth road with hard standing for jacks, pit etc for maintenance. The yard outside has also been entirely remodelled, using second hand track made redundant by the relaying of the mainline with new track - not sure how that has been costed in the overall scheme, since I suspect the actual track work costs amount largely only to ballast and machinery hire.

    Tom
     
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  5. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    A curved shed is more expensive because it requires more design work and more building work to make bits that aren't necessarily "off the shelf" in the same way they would be for a straight shed. There were also concerns about doing fitness to run exams in a curved shed, the relevant BR document states FTR exams should be done on level, straight track.
    With that in mind we spent a long time trying to make a straight shed fit, but even if we pinched some of the yard by Churchward house it still wasn't quite working and would have made the C+W workshop very difficult to shunt without extending the headshunt, which isn't possible as its at the end of the embankment already. It was also a very poor use of land, as it would have effectively cut off the segment to the south with no easy access to do anything with it.
    So the current design does indeed have a "curve" in it, although in reality it is several short straight sections, a bit like the current workshops, with a long straight at the back, maybe 5 coaches long or so.

    I could well be speaking prematurely, but I don't think we'll be so lucky on the track front. The yard will need remodelling, with a new turnout from the mainline into the yard likely to be the most expensive item on the list. So overall cost will probably be noticeably higher than the Bluebell's, even though the design of the structure is likely to be similar.
     
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  6. JJJ

    JJJ New Member

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    Just taken a look at the Bluebells carriage shed. Whats the longest the GWSR shed can be given the restraints of Winchcombe yard? As you running 8 coach trains dies it need to be that long?

    Will it purely be for storage or to work on well? Asdume it would due yo cost havd t be purely functional. But would be great to see investment into something with a brick facade at least trying to look the part.
     
  7. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Plans are still evolving, but at the moment we're looking at 2 roads of 8 carriages and one road of 5 undercover, plus another road adjacent with a lean to. The idea is some capacity would be an operational rake, plus some operational spare carriages and possibly the freight train. Mainly storage and maintenance, with a facility to work on bogies seperate from the carriage jacks in the barn has also been mooted, although I might wander in with a tin of paint and a brush every now and then as well... :) I imagine construction will be similar to the Bluebell's, which is also similar to how part of our current C+W works is constructed, i.e. steel portal and cladding. I suppose we get a choice in colour scheme, we seem to have favoured a sort of terracotta colour in the past to try and match the brickwork of the existing goods shed with the barn and paintshop. Personally I'd favour a 2-tone GWR light and dark stone colour scheme, but we're not quite at the livery debate stage yet! Bear in mind half of it will be hidden behind the existing C+W works anyway.
     
  8. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Just for info, there are two carriage sheds on the Bluebell.

    Taking a Mark 1 as a "standard" length (Bulleids, Maunsells and Pullmans are all basically similar, i.e. about 63') the one at Sheffield Park will take 2 roads * 6 coaches plus 1 road * 5 coaches, i.e. nominally 17 in total. This is used for operational use, with the dining set (currently about 3.5 coaches long) normally occupying the shorter road. Our normal longest train is 6 coaches, so the pre-nationalisation service set fits in the shed. (We still normally store Mark 1s outside except when they are undergoing maintenance). The building was designed to allow a possible extension by one carriage length at the far end and there is space for that (just); however, a seven coach rake would be constrained by the length of the headshunt, which is 6 coaches + one loco long. So in practical terms an extension by one carriage length would be of limited operational use; the headshunt can't be lengthened without encroaching on the A275. Incidentally, the additional carriage length or so in the road used for storing the Pullmans tends to house an out of traffic loco, since otherwise it would effectively be "dead" space.

    The other carriage storage shed is essentially an extension to the C&W works. The capacity is I believe 4 roads * 5 carriages of storage plus 1 roads * 5 carriages on a maintenance road. However, I believe the longest set that can be drawn out in one go is about three full length coaches; again the headshunt is constrained by the adjacent road. So that shed is not for operational use, but instead is used for storing carriages awaiting restoration; I believe that essentially all the wooden bodied carriages on the railway will ultimately have a space under cover. There is also a two story row of rooms along the side within the building (the "heritage skills centre") which will ultimately house an enlarged trimming shop, pattern storage etc.

    The maintenance road has a pit, hard standing for jacks etc. The roof line is raised for part of its length relative to the storage part in order to give space for carriages to be lifted up for bogie swaps etc.

    One point to consider early in the design is whether you want any form of regular public access. Neither of our sheds do. "Train Story" on the Isle of Wight is built as a proper display facility for the public, but doing so will require much more width, i.e. a bigger building for the same amount of storage, because of the need to leave proper room for circulation.

    Tom
     
  9. Breva

    Breva Well-Known Member

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    At the KESR it seemed to be an issue whether work was carried out in the shed, or not. I don't know though whether that was a planning thing, or fire regs, or what.
    When I see our rakes standing dripping in the rain, and the weld along the solebar bursting open and the water collecting in it - that's when I wish we had a storage shed for the winter. And for the goods vehicles that we have restored.
    I like the brick red, it's the colour the GWR would have used (brick).
    As you probably know, the Pway bought a supply of several 100 bullhead concrete sleepers off the NYMR, and about half of these were extra cheap as they are only good for sidings - the new carriage storage sidings :)
    The rail, I suggest, could come out of the main line where some rail could be upgraded to FB, so that the 'new' rail for the carriage sidings only has a net cost. We (PWay) also have a stretch of FB at Dixton which may be top of the queue for replacement. It was S/H when we got it, and is near life expired now (for the running line that is).
    The only thing we don't have is turnouts. We don't have any spare, and AFAIK those that are there in the C&W sidings at the moment are poor.
     
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  10. Wenlock

    Wenlock Member Friend

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    Nice that it was noticed.

    It was actually built as a four road carriage shelter ( the walls don't quite meet the ground, there is wire mesh below the walls for ventilation). A fifth road has subsequently been laid on the West side of the building for use mainly by the p/way.

    The bulk of the price was paid by a supporter of the RVR, to aid running of the line after a future connection between the two lines.

    Managing the operation of the new carriage storage sidings and the associated reception siding and runround loop (sometimes referred to as Rolvenden Riverside Yard) has involved not only obtaining and installing the track (including the aforementioned double slip) but also extensive alterations to signalling. Indeed there are still a couple of signalling alterations pending.

    As a by-product of the new layout we now have a much longer loop at Rolvenden.
     
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  11. JJJ

    JJJ New Member

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    Any news on Gotherington slip
     
  12. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Still slipping!
     
  13. Ploughman

    Ploughman Well-Known Member

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    Is the slip confined to off track areas? or has the track alignment been affected ?
     
  14. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Track is currently unaffected, all levels are good from what I can gather from the drainage gang at draingang.blogspot.co.uk who usually have a look each time they publish a post. There's been a TSR in place since November-ish I recall. It's been known about for some time but only in the last few months with all the rain has it really started to move noticeably.
     
  15. JJJ

    JJJ New Member

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    Given that we now know on this line the old GWR built their embankments straight on top of the natural topsoils with no real anchor to the sub strata; can the engineers do any test, calculations or just look at the geology to predict or highlight areas of possible future slips?

    And what if anything can or are the GWSR doing to mitigate or prevent this to future proof the P Way?
     
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  16. paulhitch

    paulhitch Part of the furniture

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    It also shows that the civil engineers were not being cantankerous when they imposed weight restrictions on certain lines.
     
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  17. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Although of course, being a double track mainline the GWSR was a red route from the beginning, taking everything at 60+mph except Kings.
     
  18. paulhitch

    paulhitch Part of the furniture

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    Sounds if he could have done with being tougher.
     
  19. 35B

    35B Resident of Nat Pres

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    Indeed; by the 20th century, building a main line he really ought to have ensured he had the budget to do his earthworks properly...
     
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  20. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    I've always sort of assumed that it was known at the time what the consequences might be of taking those shortcuts, at least by the eminent civil engineers at the time even if the GWR didn't consult those! Am I right in my assumption?
     

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