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GWSR Broadway Developments

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by Breva, Aug 1, 2014.

  1. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    I'll hazard a guess that the modern stop board is in the GWSR rule book, rather than the more traditional sign and, if so, that will be what is required. It would be interesting to see what their rule book wording says. The stop board is interestingly worded. Stop, you must, whether you are a passenger train or not so someone must give authority for it to be passed. Might just as well bring the semaphore into use, in that case, and get rid of the stop board.
     
  2. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Part of the furniture

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    Without checking, I think you're probably right on the rule book front, which may also answer my own question of why not last year - new rule book issued this year. Regarding the wording I wonder if it's the same one from Laverton dug out of storage which would explain the wording - does it allow a LE movement to run round without asking for authority each time?
     
  3. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    I would say that the answer to your last question is no. It says 'stop' and stop you must. If you pass it without authority, it would be a SPAD. The wording about passenger trains is supplementary information.
    The big railway rulebook says this about Stop boards:
    "A stop board shows the word 'Stop' and may also show other instructions. The driver or other person controlling the movement may only proceed past the stop board when: the instructions on the stop board have been carried out or permission to do so has been given by the authorised person. If a stop board is passed without authority it is a signal passed at danger." However, as I have said, it depends on what the GWSR rule book says, not what the big railway rule book says.

    Edit: See next post.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2019
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  4. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Further to my previuos post. After thinking about it, the fireman/guard/whoever, can take local control of the movements and authorise the stop board to be passed. That would need to be in the local instructions/sectional appendix. I think that the wording on the stop board ought to say 'Await Instructions' as the first line after the Stop.
    The NYMR has a board in the up direction at Goathland down platform prohibiting passenger train movements beyond it. It simply says something like "No up passenger train beyond this point without permission from the Signalman." This is because the next set of point has no FPL The local instructions allow the signalman to give such permission if he has clipped and scotched the points. It is not a stop board and is well in keeping with the NER atmosphere of the station.
     
  5. AndyY

    AndyY Member

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    As a matter of interest, given that the signaling isn't yet commissioned so presumably there is no signalman at Broadway, who is currently in charge of movements at the station? Is it the station master?

    Andy
     
  6. ilvaporista

    ilvaporista Part of the furniture

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    On the webcam right now they are just starting the BBQ. On the menu today are hot rivets.
     
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  7. Phil-d259

    Phil-d259 Member

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    Why go to all that bother when there is a very fine GWR signal behind the current sign awaiting commissioning!

    If this Stop board was intended to be a long term fixture then you might have a point - but its only a temporary measure which will be removed in due course.

    I see someone has suggested it might have been reused from the former Laverton loop - which is a sensible move in so much as it prevents unnecessary spending on a new sign even if the end result is a bit 'in your face' at Broadway.
     
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  8. Phil-d259

    Phil-d259 Member

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    Given its worked as a 'one train in steam' basis with ground frames to facilitate run rounds (the one at the south end being released via the single line token somehow), then its quite likely the GSWR rule book states that the loco crew are responsible for loco movements around the station, including the operation of the ground frames. No need for the station master to get involved other than train dispatch matters.
     
  9. AndyY

    AndyY Member

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    Thanks, that makes sense.

    On the subject of the 'Stop' Board, when the signalling is commissioned and the board removed, what formally differentiates between a cleared signal giving authority for an uncoupled locomotive to move forward, and authority for a complete train to move forward?
     
  10. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Essentially, whether the track controlled by the signal is clear to the next fixed stop signal or not. (In this instance, the "next fixed stop signal" might be a stop board or a red lamp on a buffer stop).

    So if the track is clear, you recieve a main arm indication. If the track is blocked before the next red aspect (for example, by rolling stock) then you would need some form of subsidiary signal, i.e. a calling on arm, shunt dummy or similar.

    The same should apply when running into the platform. An arriving train should have a clear platform at least as far as the next signal, and can therefore have a main arm. However, when the loco runs round and comes back into the platform that is now blocked by the stock, the line isn't clear to the next signal and therefore the move has to be controlled by a subsidiary signal, which essentially has the meaning "the move is authorised but be prepared to stop before the next fixed signal, and therefore proceed at a pace that you are able to stop within the distance you can see to be clear ahead".

    Tom
     
  11. Thompson1706

    Thompson1706 Well-Known Member

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    I would imagine that all loco crews passed out for this section of line know where to stop their train, which would make this sign pointless.

    Bob.
     
  12. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    I'd disagree - if you look at the photo, there is rolling stock berthed in the siding beyond. I strongly suspect that if you removed the formal stop signal, that siding would have to be kept free from stock so that the bufferstop beyond acted as the next formal stop signal after the home.

    Tom
     
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  13. Wenlock

    Wenlock Well-Known Member Friend

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    It's not a matter of route knowledge. If that is the end of the currently authorised passenger railway, then there is required to be a sign saying so.

    No doubt there is something in the local instructions section of the rule book saying that non-passenger trains (which would include the loco running round) may pass the stop board.
     
  14. Andy B

    Andy B Member

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    I understand that recent Orr visits to other railways have resulted inadequate signage issues being raised. I also saw in another gwsr blog, limited clearance signs being erected. If this is something that comes duwn from authority then that’s the way it’ll be.
    I suspect that existing lines will be ok for a bit, but new extensions will probably need to meet more modern requirements.
    Finally, all gwsr loco crew are passed to operate the ground frame, plus we’ve just had an mic on the new heavily revised rule book which is intended to make us more in line with other heritage railways and some of the latest nr safe working practices. As some people crew on more than one railway, it makes sense total sense to standardise.
     
  15. daveb

    daveb Member

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    Going back to the photo, I noted that there are signal wires on the other side of the wooden fence and point rodding on the other side of the line. The S&T Dept look to be getting on well with the job.
     
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  16. Andy Louch

    Andy Louch New Member

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    Good day all, just been handed a 'pass out' to visit the railway on Saturday 23 March. This will be the first time I will have had the opportunity to ride to the Broadway extension! Don't suppose anyone can advise what locos are likely to be rostered that week please?
    Looking forward to visiting the railway - first time for a couple of years!
    Best wishes, Andy
     
  17. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Part of the furniture

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    Dinmore Manor on train 1 and 2807 on train 2 at the moment. Train 3 is the DMU.
     
  18. Andy Louch

    Andy Louch New Member

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    Many thanks, sounds good.
    Andy
     
  19. Gloucester Boy

    Gloucester Boy New Member

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    Back at Broadway from Toddington, to lay paving around the platform 1 footbridge steps. Laid an Aco drain yesterday and connected it to the drainage system and also did some slabbing. I believe scaffolding will arrive a week Wednesday, so this will curtail our efforts, but will will revert to laying the remaining pathway on the drive up to the B&B.
     
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  20. Woolley

    Woolley Member

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    Common sense really has gone out the window in this country. I’m pretty sure all the Crew no they can’t go any further than the end of the line
     

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