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Gulf Red - Forgotten Livery?

Discussion in 'Heritage Rolling Stock' started by M59137, Oct 3, 2011.

  1. M59137

    M59137 Well-Known Member

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    Bit of a long shot I know, but I am appealing for any information regarding the rare BR Engineer's Stock Gulf Red livery. This is research in connection with a Shark Brakevan restoration.

    A modeller's thread from 3 years ago from another forum states that the livery was current between March 1960 and January 1963, and I have also been advised that the colour is NOT the same as breakdown red which can be seen on cranes and coaches around the UK's heritage railways. Apart from that I don't know much about it. Could anyone hazard a guess at when the last item of Gulf Red Stock lost its colour scheme on the BR network?

    Above all, images (colour or B&W) of BR vehicles to act as reference appear non-existent online. Can anyone help in this respect?

    There is also an article written on the livery to be found called "Bartlett, Paul W. (1992d) Gulf red - a nearly forgotten BR livery. Modellers' Backtrack vol. 2 (part 4) pp 184 - 188" which I would be interested in obtaining in some form if anyone could help in any way. I know of a few heritage railways which have very extensive collections of magazines for sale but haven't found the magazine anywhere as yet.

    Any help with the magazine, photographs of vehicles, or simply more information about the livery would be most valuable. One question I have (of many) is whether this livery has been represented in any form in preservation so far? Is there a dogfish or a shark hiding on a railway somewhere? The ultimate prize would be a colour image of a Gulf Red Shark, but at the moment, any reference material would be more than I have at present!
     
  2. The Decapod

    The Decapod New Member

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  3. Ploughman

    Ploughman Well-Known Member

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  4. Ploughman

    Ploughman Well-Known Member

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  5. e bay

    e bay New Member

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    Hi Chris,
    Hope you are well.
    I've had a change of plan, and am going to make a start on 993708, and yes, I was also thinking of painting that in Gulf Red, which it carried, along with yours!!
    (might be a couple of years off before it see's a paintbrush)
    I'm contemplating a back conversion to a true Oyster, but have not yet decided - it obviously only carried Gulf Red in its modified 'Shark ' body guise.
    Good Luck with it - might pop down and have a look at your progress, before I start pulling 08 to bits !
    Cheers,

    Andy.
     
  6. e bay

    e bay New Member

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    Chris,

    Phoenix do an Engineers Gulf Red if thats of any use?
    On 993708, there is quite a bit of Gulf Red showing under the later Grey paint - if you want a bit to scan, then let me know.

    Andy.
     
  7. Ploughman

    Ploughman Well-Known Member

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    I asked a friend of mine about this and this is his reply.

    Have you got a copy of BR Brake Vans and Ballast Ploughs by Eric Gent ISBN 0 902 835 165 ?
    Page 60 refers to the fact that only the final SHARK Lot 3285 to Diagram 598 was painted in this short lived colour scheme, namely 1962 build 993921- 993940 . This was the Lot built by Central Wagon Works - all the rest were built by BRCW and all in black of course. I doubt that any SHARKS were through works for a GR during the tenure of Gulf Red so I would guess that the Central Lot were the only ones turned out in this colour.

    I know of only one colour photo of a Gulf Red engineers wagon and that is of a three plank open on page 69 of BR Goods Wagons in Colour by Robert Hendry ISBN 1 85780 094 X
     
  8. M59137

    M59137 Well-Known Member

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    It looks like the future is bright for the Oyster fleet then! It would be nice to have two in Gulf Red, although I doubt the vehicles will ever see each other again!

    I originally intended to backdate 993707 into "Oyster" form, but part way through the stripping process (when I truly learnt how the vehicle was constructed) I got cold feet after realising the entire roof and cabin of the vehicle would have to be dismantled to achieve the required modifications! Considering the differences in the body were about 6 inches each way, I couldn't justify the extra time/expense/expertise required :)

    You're welcome to come down for a look - 993707 is very effectively showing a "before and during" restoration story at the moment (still waiting for the "after" part!)

    2011-09-11 Cheddleton.jpg

    Don't Phoenix do model paints rather than the 5L variety?

    Thanks for the pointer, Paul has been very helpful especially with some colour pictures of (albeit faded) Gulf Red wagons.

    Both books currently on order so I will hopefully be ion a position to browse both next week... I knew about the latter book but wasn't sure if ballast ploughs were covered in the Eric Gent one. Thanks for confirming this, as I said, the book is now on its way :)
     
  9. e bay

    e bay New Member

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    Chris,

    Phoenix do paint in any size - yes they do 5L

    Andy.
     
  10. e bay

    e bay New Member

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    993707 and 993708 (see page 52) carried Gulf Red pre this.
    (In David larkins Book, Civil Engineers Wagons VOl 1, he mentions Indian Red, not Gulf Red...anyone have any factual information on if these colours are the same ?... also lots of pictures indicating CE wagons in Indian red)

    Andy.
     
  11. Ploughman

    Ploughman Well-Known Member

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  12. e bay

    e bay New Member

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    The last photo evidence of 993708 in Gulf Red that I can find, is dated 28/ 08 1986 via Paul Bartletts excellent website, at Gloucester Yard, so it lasted a while !!
    May 1987 it went into Dutch livery.
    Interesting that the picture shows no end braceing bars... anyone have any info / pictures when this was added??

    Andy.
     
  13. clog&knocker

    clog&knocker New Member Account Suspended

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    Gulf Red is a British Standard colour: BS 381C 473
    This colour was also used by the LNER for the wheels of A4s in Garter Blue livery and by BR (LMR) for station buildings and signal boxes.
     

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