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Grantham Canal - bits of rusty metal and other interesting stuff.

Discussion in 'Everything Else Heritage' started by baldbof, Oct 5, 2015.

  1. Bikermike

    Bikermike New Member

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    Do you paint the lock gates? my limited experience of canal cruising always had black gates.
    Also, how is the pivot sealed, is it just upstream of the wall and allowed to press against it by water pressure?
     
  2. baldbof

    baldbof Well-Known Member

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    I take it you mean the balance beams which one leans against to open or close the gates. Only the metalwork of the gates is painted, the timbers are au naturel. The C&RT heritage adviser couldn't make her mind up whether or not they should be painted, so they have been left unpainted until she decides which way to go.

    When you say "pivot", I take it you mean the heel post - that part of the gate next to the wall. The post is curved to match the curvature of the Quoin which it rests against - see post #330 where a section of the quoin is visible. When the gates are closed and the lock is filled, water pressure does indeed help to seal the gates. This lock will hold about 70,000+ gallons when it is full so that's quite a weight against the gates.

    Post #327 shows the pivot pin set into the base of the heel post of the gate - the pin sits in a cup let into the floor of the lock next to the base of the quoin. The top of the gate is restrained by a collar which is held in place by a gate anchor which, in turn, is set into the anchor stone - an example is shown in post #228.
     
  3. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Resident of Nat Pres

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    If I may step in, the black and white only came in during Transport Commission days and the paint tended to do more harm than good as it got beneath the paint and rotted the gates from the inside out, about 15 years back BW started to stop painting the gates to help them last, but came up against opposition from the pubic who thought the black and white livery was some manner of traditional thing. I also believe some gates were painted yellow and blue when that was the corporate colour in the 70's? (apparently chosen as it was the then Chairman's military regiment colours (if my memory serves me correctly)).

    As for the hinging of the gate its a very regional thing, some have the pin set into the base of the heel post sitting in a bowl on the invert as noted above, others have the pint located on the invert which engages with a hole in the bottom of the gate, depends on the canal.
     
  4. Bikermike

    Bikermike New Member

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    yup, I did mean the whole gate. Shows how long since I've been doing it.

    I guess the white ends make sense from a visibility point of view, but I presumed they were dipped in tar/creosote/other noxious gas-work by-product for the black, not painted as it were.

    Presumably the ironwork has traditionally been black and white
     
  5. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Historically yes some lively stuff was used, in modern times painting caused way much more harm than good. As for the metal was likely black, as noted above black and white is not a traditional thing, albeit the Lancaster canal was traditionally know as the black and white canal but that had nothing to do with livery!
     
  6. baldbof

    baldbof Well-Known Member

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    Interesting. I wonder why the C&RT heritage adviser (the supposed expert) doesn't know that? I wasn't aware about the paint doing harm and goes some way to explain why the balance beams on another lock are not in a good state - they are painted black and white but what sort of paint was used, I know not as that was before my time.
     
  7. baldbof

    baldbof Well-Known Member

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    ......and no, I am not starting a discussion on which shade of black or white should be used. Save that sort of nonsense for elsewhere. :Stop:

    ;)
     
  8. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Resident of Nat Pres

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    It wasn't so much the paint doing the harm more the paint cracking letting moisture in which couldn't then escape/evaporate as it was trapped by the paint, a vicious circle.

    In my BW days we started comparing lifespans of gates painted and unpainted as part of a wider project albeit nonidea whether that continued into CRT days after my departure.
     
  9. Greenway

    Greenway Part of the furniture

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    Some quite interesting points have been raised in this thread. As with railways there were regional variations and often not known by folk in other areas. A smile came to me when I read GWR4707's comment about public attitudes to what they believed was correct, but in fact was not. Heritage railways are no different is seems when it comes to traditions.
     
  10. gwilialan

    gwilialan Part of the furniture

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    Where x = the unknown and 'spurt' = a drip under pressure?
     
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  11. weltrol

    weltrol Member Friend

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    Quite often these 'experts' are ignorant of history, historical importance and value.
    They have often been appointed by cronies in 'high places' who are themselves short of a few brain cells.
    Modern historians and authors have carried out extensive research into interesting topics, and found that 'established' historians have glossed over the truth in a number of cases ( e.g. J.I.C Boyd...).
    Easier access to 'historic' records have uncovered many such instances where 1960's 'history' has been proven wrong.
    Some museum curators and advisors need to take a good look at themselves and those around them just to see how poor the standards have gone.
    I know of several canal restorers who have given up due to a lack of knowledge of basic canal infrastructure in their C&RT 'advisors'.
     
  12. baldbof

    baldbof Well-Known Member

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    That, and other aspects of these "advisors" activities, I cannot disagree with. In fairness though, I have to say their gate makers and fitters plus the people who actually get their hands dirty out on the cut, do know their stuff - it's the one's who are square pegs in round holes and sit in nice comfy offices who are the problem.
     
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  13. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Resident of Nat Pres

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    I feel I should step in here, being one of those who apparently sat in comfy offices (if I spent one day a week in the office it was a bad week) and apparently didn't know what they were talking about, despite having a fair number of years of professional experience in both regulatory and charitable positions prior to joining BW, along with a life long interest in industrial heritage.

    The long and short of it is that since BW became CRT I suspect that the terms and conditions (and pay) of their advisors has been slowly constrained (when I was there I was offered a job at EH, but they couldn't match the terms I was on at BW, suspect that's not the case now!) meaning that it possibly is the case of they are getting less experienced candidates who are often stuck between a rock and a hard place maintaining corporate standards whilst also trying to keep volunteer restorers happy who are not backward in telling you of their disdain for you, especially if, god forbid you try and stop them doing something they had decided they were going to do. Perhaps as I was a male and slightly more experienced person I wasn't as affected as others, but I could give you countless examples of people being extremely aggressive and frankly obnoxious to 'advisors' (not just heritage, ecologists as well) who were simply trying to keep the peace and ensure that no legislation was breached.

    I could give countless examples where I had to stop volunteers doing things that damaged historic fabric and would have broken the law, digging them out with local authorities/HE/EH when they had committed offences and had to play referee when conflict arose between them and engineers on various matters.

    Both sides need the other, but there needed/needs to be much less antagonism from restorers to those who were just doing their job reflecting the best interests and aspiration of their employer who they work for.
     
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  14. baldbof

    baldbof Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps, I should amend the tone of my last post. I didn't intend to mean everyone who sit's in a nice comfy office - sometimes because of RHIP* - as being a square peg in a round hole, and yes, there are volunteers who are a right PITA and who think they know better - I wouldn't disagree on that point; we've had more than our fair share. Apparently, our group did get a red card a few years ago for doing something they shouldn't have. Fortunately those people are no longer with us and we are much more aware of what we can and cannot do.

    My comment about square pegs was drawn from a situation where a person who's professional qualifications were not appropriate to the job - a bit like expecting a dentist to change an aircraft engine.



    * Rank has its privilege.
     
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  15. Ploughman

    Ploughman Well-Known Member

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    The usual interpretation of an EXPERT is Ex is a HAS BEEN and a SPURT is Drip under pressure as you say.

    My definition originates, for me, from Blaster Bates back in the 70's
     
  16. gwilialan

    gwilialan Part of the furniture

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    Mine was common in the RAF - also back in the 70's. Wonder where it started? :)
     
  17. baldbof

    baldbof Well-Known Member

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    I first heard it's use on a Blaster Bates LP record (showing my age here)..."The shower of sh** over Cheshire" perhaps??
     
  18. Forest Rail

    Forest Rail New Member

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    Off the coast of Morocco, and I only know that coz I found his back catalogue on Spotify recently :p
     
  19. DismalChips

    DismalChips Member

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    I see those LPs in charity shops all the time. I've often wondered what on earth they're like (such an oddly specific world to create a character from), although for some reason I've never actually bought and listened to one. Seems to have vanished entirely from the comedy discourse. I'm assuming from the title a fairly earthy humour.
     
  20. Groks212

    Groks212 Member

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    There are a few of his after dinner talks on you tube , below is a sample.


    Dave B
     
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