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Glyn Valley Tramway, Track relaying at Glynceiriog

Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by woodbasher, Apr 12, 2013.

  1. Felix Holt

    Felix Holt Guest

    I always thought the rationale for 2'6" was shaky - much better if they'd stuck with the original gauge and avoided the damaging split ....
     
  2. paulhitch

    paulhitch Part of the furniture

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    Very little will happen at all unless a gauge is selected where there are bits and pieces which can be purchased on the second hand market or perhaps borrowed. Even then items are getting very expensive if they in anything like decent condition. Harrumphs about not accepting anything other than "original" gauge are completely unrealistic.

    Gareth Houghton has demonstrated admirably how most 2ft. 6ins stuff is just too hefty for the location.
    P.H.
     
  3. estwdjhn

    estwdjhn Member

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    There seems to be some confusion as to what can and can't be done with new boilers. Speaking as someone who works at a boiler makers (although at the sharp end, making the things, rather than in the drawing office), here is my understanding...

    Old boilers can be repaired fairly extensively on the boiler inspector/insurance company's say so. We have a 1930s road steam boiler in at work at the moment, which is having a new backhead, new barrel, new tubeplate, new firebox, new foundation ring. The original bits left comprise of the two hornplates, crownsheet and throatplate. I've a feeling there is now some sort of limitation on how much "original" has to be left before it becomes a new build - I think possibly one can replace 60% at any one time - although how one defines 60% of a boiler I'm unclear.

    New build boilers now have to comply with the EU Pressure Vessels Directive, even if they are to an existing design. Things like riveted construction are still perfectly acceptable, but someone somewhere has to run the calculations to prove it will all work with acceptable safety tolerances. This means that in practice, to build a replica boiler one has to:
    1) Get hold of the original drawings and/or an original boiler.
    2) Redraw said drawings to accommodate things like metric plate sizes (Imperial plate thicknesses now being basically unobtainable). There may be other changes to make - e.g. welded fireboxes and barrels, even on otherwise riveted boilers.
    3) Run the numbers to prove it all works to modern tolerances - this may involve small design changes, although usually even very old designs can be made to add up ok with a bit of effort with a calculator.
    4) Build the thing under the supervision of a boiler inspector (who will probably also be involved at the paperwork stage).
    5) Hydraulic test the completed boiler, at which point you can fit it with a CE marking plate which is stamped by the boiler inspector, to confirm your boiler is compliant.

    Getting the rest of a new build engine to comply if current regs is a different problem - my understanding is that very often "they built loads in the 1920s and they worked fine" isn't far off the basis under which they are justified - a lot depends where the loco in question is to be used. It's a completely different ball game if you want to run on network rail of course.

    I've a feeling that building replica passenger vehicles is the real problem area - the main problem being the Disablitity Discrimination Act stuff, to which most narrow gauge rolling stock doesn't comply. I think there are ways round some of this for heritage vehicles, but I'm not sure what they are...
     
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  4. pete2hogs

    pete2hogs Member

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    Well, whatever, choose one of 2ft or 2ft3 or 2ft 6 and stick with it! I didn't know about the 'European loading gauge' bit for 2ft 6, which might well impact the decision. Creating a railway with a unique (but very similar) gauge is pointless. The 2ft 4-and -a-bit in was probably an accident in the first place.
     
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  5. RGCorris

    RGCorris New Member

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    In that there are now 4 Baldwins in the UK (one at Leighton Buzzard, one at WHHR, two at Statfold) all of which are likely to remain 2' gauge, then the chances of a future visit by an appropriate loco to the GVT are enhanced by using the 2' gauge on the Coalwharf Tramway. I wouldn't have thought that putting 2' gauge wheelsets under the GVT carriages on the Talyllyn for a visit would be that difficult either, although modifying the brake gear to suit might be more tricky.

    The GVT IHT website http://www.glynvalleytramway.org.uk/ doesn't seem to have been updated in ages - is there anywhere else online where up-to-date news of the planned Fun Day on June 8th can be found ?

    Richard
     
  6. RGCorris

    RGCorris New Member

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    In response to my query to the organisers regarding the Fun Day on Saturday June 8th -

    "Yes the day is still going ahead train rides start at about 10.30 until late afternoon, It will be held on the Coal Wharf at Glynceiriog and anyone will tell you how to find it or you will maybe hear the train"

    The Coal Wharf is alongside the Afon Ceiriog at the foot of the valley below Glynceiriog village.

    Richard
     
  7. woodbasher

    woodbasher New Member

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    As you enter Glynceiriog Village ,when you get to the old Glyn Valley Engine shed on the left ,continue about another 100yds and at the roudabout turn left, follow the road down and about 150yds the Coal Wharf is in front of you .You can park in the old shed yard or at the Wharf.
     
  8. cncmodeller

    cncmodeller New Member

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    I agree , I am unsure why the GVT has been chosen as a railway to rebuild if there is no affinity with the original? Why not choose a new site where there is perhaps more custom and design your own unique rolling stock. I think the Glyn Valley Tramway Group were perhaps too timid over the years, I remember in an old 'Narrow Gauge Times' in the 1970's that a replica carriage was to be constructed, if they had put say a £100 per year towards that they would have it by now! I think ultimately the two groups have completely different aims and interests in the original railway. Also if you look at the route there is a serious obstacle at Dolywern as the site is now an old folks home even though the bridge still remains and I think the original horse drawn route along the road would be too sharp for a loco worked line. This should be a simple [ relatively!] railway to resurrect the locos are small, the carriages are small ,the track bed is a wide grass verge, its major obstacle is the two groups not agreeing to the way forward. I don't honestly believe that making it 2ft 6in gauge is going to make a whole host of locomotives become viable.
     
  9. cncmodeller

    cncmodeller New Member

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    I visited the Glyn Valley on Wednesday 23rd and took a few pictures, I first visited this place in 1978 and wanted to see what all the 'chatter', endless articles in all the Railway magazines and other postulations have resulted in.
    From what I could see the only visible changes in the past 36 years are a few short yards of track at Glyn Ceiriog yard and a station name board at Pontfadog.
    I checked at Chirk and saw the same old overgrown cutting below the bridge and looks no different from 1978.
    For once I was not driving and took a good note of the widths of the grass verge along the former route from Chirk to Glyn Ceiriog, I would say that at least a third of It was no more than two feet in width and the rest was at Its maximum about 5 feet. I could not imagine a modern recreation taking up at least 12 feet of the road to provide a safe width for a loco and train while the passing traffic would be hurtling by mostly breaking the speed limit!
    The idea of creating a museum at Glyn Ceiriog station yard seems sound to me providing they could get the adjoining station as well but I think that is privately owned so may be a non starter and would make the practical ambition of laying track towards Hendre impossible.

    [​IMG]
    Engine shed at Glyn Ceiriog July 23rd 2014.
    [​IMG]
    Short length of track in yard at Glyn Ceiriog 23rd July 2014 [ happily the correct gauge ] plus Monty the Jack Russell!
    [​IMG]
    Station waiting room at Dolywern 23rd July 2014
    [​IMG]
    Pontfadog waiting room 23rd July 2014
     

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