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Future covered workshop and storage space (especially for carriages) ?

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by toplight, Sep 5, 2017.

  1. Copper-capped

    Copper-capped Part of the furniture

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    Oh, and that the judge of the wager is not some all-knowing, totally random, mysterious stranger on a platform....
     
  2. Matt78

    Matt78 Well-Known Member

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    With any extension there is always a "bounce" effect when you get people coming to see something "new". This I think has been alluded to by GWSR management themselves. This would possibly impact on figures adversely this year as many potential punters may delay a visit until the extension opens and not visit this year. So it is pretty much guaranteed that there will be an initial surge and increase in numbers.

    What is far less easy to predict is whether the initial effect will continue long-term which is what I think PH is alluding to. (I'm not making any comment either way on Broadway itself, but this is true of each and every extension).

    So it might be a while before the outcome of the "bet" is determined...donation to the GWSR carriage shed maybe ☺️

    Regards

    Matt
     
  3. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

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    Maybe Paul could be forgiven for not having the local knowledge you and I have, but for anyone who does will know it's a far more sensible terminus than Toddington, which in reality is in the middle of nowhere.

    Before the Cheltenham extension opened the railway ran from nowhere to nowhere. Opening the extension gave a destination which in turn gave an increase in passenger numbers, revenue and profits, Broadway is the next logical step as then there is a destination at both ends meaning the railway will now run from somewhere to somewhere.

    I'm afraid @paulhitch that I think Alex has a safe bet there and I look forward to hearing about your donation as I am confident on the outcome in this particular case.
     
  4. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    Even I wouldn't think there would be no increase in loadings. The question is whether these would be sustained at anything like the maximum level when the novelty wears off. The carriage shed remains "jam tomorrow".

    PH
     
  5. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

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    Well Cheltenham gave a 30% increase which was sustained as long term growth. You could argue that tourist wise Broadway is a bigger attraction so I'd be quite confident in the long term numbers.
     
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  6. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    Bigger than the racecourse, the Festival plus the Pump Room? Come on! They are very different places and what applies to one is not bound to apply to the other.

    It is a bit late now, but all I am really saying is establish your base camp properly before climbing further up the mountain.

    PH
     
  7. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    Agree with Matt completely. I would only add that I don't gamble and neither should steam railways.

    Paul H.
     
  8. Bill Drewett

    Bill Drewett Member

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    I don't think anyone was claiming that the initial 'bounce' would be sustained. The claim was that there would be a long-term, net increase in income from opening the extension to Broadway. Personally, I think you're very sensible not to accept the wager.
     
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  9. Kinghambranch

    Kinghambranch Well-Known Member

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    I assumed that you would say that and I assumed correctly.
     
  10. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Coming back to the original question, on the Bluebell, the plans are:

    - Complete Operation undercover 4 (the large carriage shed at Horsted Keynes for carriages awaiting restoration.
    - ASH project at Sheffield Park, which will provide in addition to revised display, more covered workshop / maintenance space in the location where the old (1960s) engine shed was; that will give better facilities for locos undergoing washouts and minor repairs, clear of the main workshop.
    - Provision of a large exhibits museum hall for out of service stock and large museum exhibits. (Operation Undercover phase 5).

    On top of those, there is also a project to develop a research and archives centre to provide better quality storage of those items; the archive consisting of both preservation and pre-preservation era documents, drawings and photographs.

    Tom
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2017
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  11. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    The racecourse and festival are short term events so the comparator is more sensibly the pump room, which I understand is not especially near Cheltenham Racecourse station. As for journey/visitor type, I'd suggest that Broadway is fairly and squarely in the sweet spot for complementary visits to a steam railway.


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  12. michaelh

    michaelh Part of the furniture

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    I am not sure that I would regard Chelenham Racecouse as "somewhere" in a destination context.
     
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  13. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    As it is without the extension.

    PH
     
  14. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    Beg to differ there, even allowing for GWR habits when siting stations


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  15. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    In order to get to Broadway, unless you are a hiker, you need some sort of vehicle. Motor car, coach or bicycle, it doesn't matter. From memory, it is a fair distance (and uphill) from the station to the centre of Broadway. Apart from cyclists, who will have the option of loading their bicycles into the guards van, it is no big deal to ride/drive to Toddington if they want a ride on a train.

    The money on the extension is already spent though. No carriage shed.

    PH
     
  16. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

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    Compared to the Gotherington loop which was the terminus before I think it's somewhere rather than nowhere which was my point.
     
  17. michaelh

    michaelh Part of the furniture

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    I suspect that those joining at Cheltenham Race Course will travel to Broadway because a) its the end of the line b) its somewhere they will have heard of and c) nowhere else is much of a destination. Some however may be deterred from making the return journey because of cost/time issues and send dad or mum in the car to pick them up in Broadway.

    It will be interesting to see what happens at Toddington - I would expect many to still join the train there because of the large free car park - but how many will want to do a full round trip and how many will just want a ride to Broadway and back?
     
  18. huochemi

    huochemi Part of the furniture

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    Has anyone claimed that? The comments above are "additional income [hopefully]", "[very sure of a] sustained increase in business", "[business will] exceed expectations" (the last being a bit gnomic). It might of course be what was intended. The prospectus for the recent share issue seems to be silent as to the reasons either for extending to Broadway or the financial outcome. I happen to think that the GWSR is very well run, but I agree with Paul that extensions are largely driven by enthusiast aspirations, not business. Nothing wrong in that per se of course and Broadway looks a more sustainable project than some.
     
  19. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    Seems fair enough to me.

    Paul H
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 17, 2017
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  20. richards

    richards Part of the furniture

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    Rather than all this guesswork about revenues from extensions, it might be useful to someone "in the know" to give an idea of the revenue changes following an extension.

    There might be an initial "bounce" from railway enthusiasts who hear about an extension opening through the grapevine/magazines, but opening up the railway to a wider catchment area (particularly to a location which is an existing attraction to visitors) is likely to lead to a steady increase in passengers/revenue as word gets around through the general public, tourist information centres, and other local publicity.
     

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