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FR & WHR & WHHR News

Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by AndrewT, Jul 17, 2012.

  1. pgbffest

    pgbffest Member

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    There are ways and means of sorting out coaling and lubrication. Superpower last year we could coal and lubricate underneath in 11 minutes from arriving until leaving. There's no reason why something couldn't do the whole line in one day, it is just generally we chose not to.
     
  2. jamesd

    jamesd New Member

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    VoF did it from Blaenau to Caernarfon and back non stop (other than the run round!). I can't remember the year but it was shortly after the line reopened so maybe 2012 or 13?
     
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  3. Hunslet589

    Hunslet589 New Member

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    To pick up on a couple of queries that have been raised recently..

    Range of a Fairlie : I was fortunate enough to drive the Earl on one of its last turns at last year's Superpower - Port to Caernarvon and back. While we were rostered to take fuel during the stop at Dinas , in practice this was fairly minimal. Dispute that, we still had a reasonable stock remaining when we got back to Port. So we could have gone further. However, the real limit to distance is lubrication - specifically the capacity of the oil pots on the valve eccentrics. These have a capacity enough to cover around 50 miles - 2 round trips on the FR or 1 on the WHR. There is no spare for any additional activities, if the loco is due to work any addition trips or shuttles between, say, Dinas and Caernarfon then these pots have to be refilled, which needs a pit.

    Loads: as a rule of thumb, locos official maximum loads on the WHR are half that on the FR, so the max for a Fairlie limited to 12 coaches on the FR will be 6 on the WHR. Having said that the trip mentioned above had the maximum 6 coaches but the Earl performed such that we could have taken more. However you have to allow for weather and other abnormal circumstances. So the normal max is 6.

    Hope this clarifies things...
     
  4. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    So in theory you could do say Caernarfon -BF (Is there a pit at Glan y Pwll to service?)

    Just a question about loads - is there a difference between FR carriages and WHR carriages (what with the WHR ones being bigger) or is a carriage a carriage a carriage. (I seem to recall back in the day that the bug boxes together counted as 1).
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2019
  5. pgbffest

    pgbffest Member

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    You would be able to do Dinas (assuming loco in the shed!) > Caernarfon > Blaenau > Porthmadog > Boston Lodge before needing lubrication again. Generally with coaches a coach is a coach (with a bug box being 1/2!). Anything that you want to do which technically overloads the engine needs the permission of the Chief Mechanical Engineer.
     
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  6. Hunslet589

    Hunslet589 New Member

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    Yes there is a pit at Glan y pwll but its well off the main line and not really something you could use during a normal trip.

    Yes WHR coaches are bigger and heavier than FR ones but there is no sensible way you could try and calculate how much heavier on a day to day basis, so all vehicles (except bug boxes) are assumed to be the same.
     
  7. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    Yeah, I was thinking of a kind of one off thing, do the whole line. (BF- Caernarfon, Caernarfon- BF). Does anything ever start from BF? (What prompted this was seeing the Caernarfon to Blaenau at speed video)

    How far could you get on a Hunslet or England before you would need to coal or a pit? I assume Taliesin, Lyd and hypothetically the ALCO :( are the most limited.
     
  8. estwdjhn

    estwdjhn Member

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    Can't you use the rolling stock weights? Where I get to be involved, we've both MK1's (about 36T) and much lighter 4 wheeled wooden rolling stock (8-12T a vehicle). Its pretty easy to add up what's on the hook to see if its within the capabilities of the engine (we do deliberate standing start tests on the steepest gradients with test trains of known weight to determine a loco's maximum capability).
     
  9. 35B

    35B Resident of Nat Pres

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    I’d also wondered that, but aren’t there also considerations around how freely the vehicles move, and thus the resistance they privy?


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  10. pgbffest

    pgbffest Member

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    Generally, everything is the same in that they'll need coaling after 25 miles and lubricating after 50ish. Obviously Lyd is easier as you can do all the oiling from the outside. Prince would probably manage a round trip coal wise as the tender is rather large. Mind you, all depends what you're hauling etc.

    You can of course do the whole route in one day at various times of the year. So where FR Green Timetable meets WHR Red timetable or FR Yellow / WHR Red or FR Red / WHR Red. Can be from Porthmadog or Blaenau, but not Caernarfon. You can also do a "Snowdonian Single" throughout the year.

    Next scheduled appearance of FR engines hauling WHR trains should be Saturday 4th May, where Merddin and Taliesin will take the 1050 ex Porthmadog to Caernarfon and back whilst the Garratt takes a charter. Also to be aware of is the return portion of the 1000 ex Caernarfon will be later than normal to accommodate said charter (14:50 I think) meaning 2 1/2 hours in Porthmadog)
     
  11. Hunslet589

    Hunslet589 New Member

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    What are you going to do with that info once you have it? The official weight can distorted by anything up to a ton per coach by passenger numbers anyway - something a driver can ‘feel’ once you get underway.

    If you are thinking of using your numbers to dictate loco use for that trip if only it where that simple. It’s far to late for anything like that. Fine in theory just not practical...
     
  12. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    More than a ton I would have thought, unless Welsh passengers are especially light! If a typical grown adult is say 100kg including clothes etc, that makes ten passengers per ton; perhaps a working average of 12 per ton would allow for some being children.

    The old railways seemed to have allowed “1” for a four wheel carriage, then “1 and a half” for a six wheeler, “two” for a bogie coach etc. So you will sometimes see accident reports stating something like “the train consisted of eight carriages, equal to twelve and a half” which implies a mixture of four and six wheeled vehicles. I suspect that made the guards job and that of loco rostering easier than adding up precise weights - particularly in the days of grease bearings when rolling resistance was also a consideration in the loads that could be hauled.

    Tom
     
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  13. nine elms fan

    nine elms fan Member

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    Seen on the back of a flatbed lorry on the M20 near Maidstone today London bound, Romney & Hythe railway the Bug, any one know where it was heading!
     
  14. Paul42

    Paul42 Well-Known Member

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    Ravenglass & Eskdale Railway seehttps://ravenglass-railway.co.uk/events/pdfs/190426%20GALA%20WEEKEND%20ROSTER%20-%20RG%20&%20DG.pdf
     
  15. nine elms fan

    nine elms fan Member

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    Cheers :)
     
  16. The Saggin' Dragon

    The Saggin' Dragon Part of the furniture Staff Member Moderator

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  17. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

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    This conjoured up a memory of official concerns (ahead of reopening) about the FR/WHR terminating services at Beddgelert .... due to the gradient. The line's management have a good track record, so there's every reason to trust that a satisfactory solution to the matter will be identified in short order.
     
  18. 35B

    35B Resident of Nat Pres

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    I hope so. Although the "good track record" has been dented with the recent incident at Penryn, also investigated by RAIB.
     
  19. Sheff

    Sheff Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately another fail to stop.


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  20. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

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    Just watched "Moving Pictures No.31" .... most enjoyable, but a (possibly daft) question .....

    Looking at the L&B powered half of 'The Snowdonian", the exhaust on 'Lyn' is virtually invisible, when compared with 'Lyd'. Is this a result of a higher exhaust temperature, or merely a result of improved use of steam ('Lyn's' economic use of water has been commented upon, during it's Snowdonian sojourn)?
     

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