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FR & WHR & WHHR News

Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by AndrewT, Jul 17, 2012.

  1. MuzTrem

    MuzTrem Member

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    How strange to think that it's taken more than fifty years since the FfR revival to bring all four surviving Englands together! But it's a sight well worth waiting for. I'm also looking forward to seeing Welsh Pony in green - again, it's been far too long since we've seen a green England!

    And Englands in Dublin - whatever next?! Looks like 2013 is going to be a memorable year!
     
  2. meeee

    meeee Member

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    Not only that but the mythical blue livery will be banished for all eternity.

    Hopefully one day the photo can be repeated with all the locos in steam.
     
  3. marshall5

    marshall5 Well-Known Member

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    Its great to see the four remaining Englands together and beautifully photographed to boot! It would be nice to think that Prince could, one day,be un- rebuilt back to its 1960's condition. Does anyone know if there are enough tenders to go around? What happened to the one that used to be used as a loco coal wagon in the sixties? Any info would be most appreciated. Ray.
     
  4. meeee

    meeee Member

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    There are enough tenders they just aren't behind the right engines. Waggon 38 which was used as a coal waggon in the 60's and a tender for both Linda and Blanche is now restored and runs behind Palmerston. The other wooden framed tender is just undergone cosmetic attention and will appear behind Princess next year.

    The two metal framed tenders have both been much rebuilt over the years. They now run behind Prince and Linda.

    So a new tender would have to built at some point.

    The tenders were never specifically allocated permanently to any engine. In fact they had a totally different number series just to confuse people.
     
  5. marshall5

    marshall5 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for that information. Ray.
     
  6. Clarke_T

    Clarke_T New Member

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    Yes please, a worthy appeal that I'd put money to, what would it take, rebuilding of the frames and lowering of the cab to start...?
    If the same could be done to revert Merddin to it's pre-1960s condition that would be appreciated :)

    Well, I can dream can't I?

    Also, fantastic to see all 4 England engines together, replica of Little Giant to complement them anyone?
     
  7. Steve B

    Steve B Well-Known Member

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    I suspect that there would be a variety of opinions on this. These locos were rebuilt in order to make them more useful, stronger, powerful, and reliable. The Ffestiniog is a working railway, not simply a museum that happens to run trains, and the development of these and other locos (Linda, Blanche, Mountaineer) is simply a continuation of a process that has gone on for 150 years, and I, for one, don't think that is a bad idea, particularly as in the case of the England locos there are other survivors to represent them at an earlier stage of development (even one that works - Palmerston).

    I suppose that this touches on the same theme that has arisen in other threads recently, namely "what is preservation?" What the Ffestiniog has done is to preserve the practice of developing it's locos and stock, both in rebuilding older stock, and in new builds. In recent years they have made some great strides in developing the heritage side of things, but I wouldn't want to see everything changed back - it would take away from what has been achieved. And no, I don't expect everyone to agree!

    Steve B
     
  8. Clarke_T

    Clarke_T New Member

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    Don't get me wrong, I admire the policies of the FR, I just can't help but think that it 'would be nice'. I'm usually the one fighting those with the silly uneconomical ideas, but some of us are allowed to lapse occasionally :)
     
  9. Steve B

    Steve B Well-Known Member

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    Well actually, I feel I'm probably totally inconsistent. Whilst supporting the development of locos as on the Ffestiniog, or the painting of a P class tank in Bluebell Railway livery, my main interest (railway-wise) is in the pre-grouping era, both standard and narrow gauge, steam and electric (and what internal combustion there was) and seeing such locos and stock operate as they were originally intended, in the environment that they belonged to. Which is why I like the Bluebell.

    I can't see any reason to rebuild Prince to 1960's form - but I would be tempted to see an England return to original condition, but I can't see it happening! And anyway they got rebuilt so quickly they can't have been that good! But that counts as my "lapse"!

    Steve B
     
  10. MuzTrem

    MuzTrem Member

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    Personally, as I argued once before on another thread, I'd prefer to see Prince restored to 1980s condition:
    "It might not have been the engine's prettiest form, but at the time it was intended to fit the engine to allow it to be used regularly on 5-coach trains, as required by the peak service of the time. In that sense, Prince in 1980 can be considered the ultimate evolution of the England design. Now, as Tim points out, train lengths have increased to the point where Prince really has no role on regular services. The cosmetic mods in recent years have attempted to make the engine look Victorian again, but she'll never really look right alongside Palmerston or Welsh Pony. In any case, 1980 was now thirty years ago so I think it has reached the stage where it can be considered "historic" in its own right.
    If Welsh Pony were to be restored and a replica Mountaineer built (now that's something I'd love to see!), Prince in 1980 condition could then present the final chapter in the England story. As has rightly been pointed out many times, the history of the FfR didn't end in 1946. Prince restored to 1980 condition would acknowledge the railway's modern heritage; IMHO, that would be more interesting than its current pseudo-Victorian state."
     
  11. acorb

    acorb Well-Known Member

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    Anybody able to say what loco(s) will be operating FR services sunday please? Loco roster has not been updated on website.
     
  12. The Italian Tank

    The Italian Tank New Member

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    It should be Palmerston and Merddin Emrys; complete overkill, but a nice pairing nevertheless. Lyd is out on a WHR lineside clearance works train.
     
  13. jamesd

    jamesd Member

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    Gelert has also been up to Beddgelert this morning with the WHHR heritage train. Pics are on the FR's Facebook page.
     
  14. acorb

    acorb Well-Known Member

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    Thanks guys, looking forward to a post christmas steam fix.
     
  15. Jark91

    Jark91 Member

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    What's the logic in pairing Merddin with another loco for the post-Christmas services? Is it weather-related? Not that I'm complaining of course...
     
  16. Nexuas

    Nexuas Well-Known Member

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  17. AndrewT

    AndrewT Member

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    Palmerston was on test following maintenance including a re-tube.
     
  18. AndrewT

    AndrewT Member

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    Video of WHHR test train to Beddgelert here
     
  19. The Italian Tank

    The Italian Tank New Member

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    Not strictly true; Palmerston made a test run on 23/12. All FR service trains this week have, from the outset been rostered to be double headed. As for why? That I can't answer.
     
  20. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

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    Is it the lack of sanders on the double again?
     

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