If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

FR & WHR & WHHR News

Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by AndrewT, Jul 17, 2012.

  1. Felix Holt

    Felix Holt Guest

    It does indeed have various axes to grind (not least about the stupidity of lemming Thursday!), but it does give more detailed and more frequent updates on what is happening on the WHR (and to a lesser extent the FfR) than most other sites. :)
     
    30854 and Meiriongwril like this.
  2. Sheff

    Sheff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2006
    Messages:
    6,980
    Likes Received:
    1,549
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired Engineer & Heritage Volunteer
    Location:
    N Warks
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Have I missed something? What site are you referring to plse?
     
  3. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    3,421
    Likes Received:
    3,338
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Brighton&Hove
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Barrie's http://isengard.co.uk/ website (one of my regularly trawled websites, usually updated a couple of times a week). I followed the blow by blow reconstruction of the WHR courtesy of Barrie. He's been a stalwart on the WHR for many moons now and one of the team wrestling a recalcitrant NG15 back to life at Dinas. I've learned more about the lifecycle of crossing timbers from his website than everywhere else put together! The ongoing sequence of photos showing the new station under construction at Caernarfon are fascinating.
     
  4. clam1952

    clam1952 New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    40
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Crewe Cheshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    All very true likewise followed his day by day reconstruction stuff which came in extremely useful for my reconstruction of the FR/ WHR on the Trainz simulator, however he is somewhat biased in certain aspects and often not strictly correct, however doesn't stop me checking the site daily though, even if some info conflicts with that from my FR / WHR contacts ;0).
    His Caernarfon Station updates are more current than the farcebook stuff at the moment. If you don't like farcebook, Barrie's site is the place to go for the Caernarfon updates and repairs to crossings!
     
    sycamore and 30854 like this.
  5. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    3,421
    Likes Received:
    3,338
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Brighton&Hove
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Pretty 'on the ball' with the rolling stock too.... and those interested in detailed gradient profiles of the WHR could do a lot worse than 'isengard'.

    Personally, I find the odd dissenting voice distinctly refreshing and if the odd boo-boo or faux pas from a guy who's put years of enthusiastic effort into a heritage scheme is the price to pay (like they never happen on the 'official' sites, or here on NP for that matter!), hell..... I can live with that!:)
     
  6. clam1952

    clam1952 New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    40
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Crewe Cheshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Least his site is still being maintained, unlike the Welsh Highland forum which seems to have died and has now been taken over by Tapatalk which probably will stop any sane person going there anyway.
    I used the gradient profiles for my simulator project, extremely useful.
     
    30854 likes this.
  7. MuzTrem

    MuzTrem Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2011
    Messages:
    658
    Likes Received:
    616
    Perhaps fitting a leading truck could help, as with Moelwyn? I seem to recall Whipsnade had one for sale some years ago, it may still be there...

    I also think the idea of equipping the Funkeys for multiple working is an interesting one.
     
  8. Chris B

    Chris B New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2010
    Messages:
    136
    Likes Received:
    49
    Could always go for a SAR 91-000 DE or PKP Lxd2 if they were suitable for re-gauging down from 750mm
     
  9. CymruGarratt

    CymruGarratt New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2008
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    6
    The SAR Class 91s are completely unsuitable. Firstly, they are huge - they collided with some of the platform canopies when in service in SA and I understand that they cannot be cut down as their power units and ancillaries occupy pretty much the whole space within the engine compartment. Secondly, their axle loadings are very heavy at 12 tonnes which is almost double that of a Garratt! Considerable bridge strengthening would need to be carried out; there are already restrictions on where double headed Garratts can and cannot run. Lastly, they are 'old technology' with inefficient engines - remember they are already 45 years old.
    The PKP Lxd2 type would be an unlikely candidate as the transmission units occupy virtually the whole space between the wheelbacks. I have heard it said that new wheels with dished backs might be the answer but that is probably conjecture. Their technology is even older than the 91s.
    If anyone would like to contribute to the purchase of a new higher powered diesel there is a scheme for "Finishing The Job" called the Diamond Jubilee Appeal which is raising funds for improvements to infrastructure (stations, carriage sheds etc.) - and a diesel.
    My personal assessment is that, if anything, a new build locomotive would be preferable to some second hand conversion.
     
    30854 and Bluenosejohn like this.
  10. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    3,421
    Likes Received:
    3,338
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Brighton&Hove
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Re: SAR/ZASM Class 91 - That's progress for you!

    Given the reported experience over on the IoM with "Cabbage" No.21, I can only agree with you about a new thunderbird diesel. I'm guessing price issues (only partly connected with emission requirements) for new infernal combustion plant may have some bearing on any eventual decision.

    Whatever, sourcing something suitable for lugging 12 up 1:40 and running at 25mph while keeping withing the FR loading gauge (or it's only ever going to be useful west of Blodge) is going to be a pretty tall order. That suggests to me that two MU capable locos may be a better route to go down, giving rather more operational flexibility, as the FR/WHR does have to be able to operate both lines' timetables reliably. More damned expense, whichever way you slice it!
     
    Bluenosejohn likes this.
  11. lostlogin

    lostlogin New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2007
    Messages:
    297
    Likes Received:
    45
    Is the simpler potential answer not to look for a single loco but rather find a way of connecting two together so they can be driven from the leading cab. Logically the two Funky's with another loco as back up.

    Obviously the technology is there as whilst I am no expert just from seeing on TV in many countries for years they seem to have had a bank of locos which just driven from the leading cab and I seem to remember in the past the FR had one of their locos and carriages fitted so that the train was effectively driven from the carriage with the loco propelling. Basically an auto train.

    I really have no knowledge on this so how things appear on TV may be wrong and each loco may have their own crew, but if not basically having two power units driven from a leading cab might be an easier option
     
    30854 likes this.
  12. 61624

    61624 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2006
    Messages:
    3,893
    Likes Received:
    1,667
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Some Australian sugar cane lines now use converted 3'6" gauge Bo-Bo locos. I don't know what power rating these have, but might one of these be a possible off-the shelf solution - or are they too big?
     
  13. Copper-capped

    Copper-capped Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2017
    Messages:
    1,291
    Likes Received:
    1,557
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Stanthorpe, QLD, Australia
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2017
  14. 61624

    61624 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2006
    Messages:
    3,893
    Likes Received:
    1,667
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    They look like the ones!
     
  15. meeee

    meeee Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
    Messages:
    480
    Likes Received:
    334
    By far the cheapest and simplest option is to have two drivers. Very rarely have the two locos been required to double head.

    They were equipped with multiple working equipment in SA but the electrics were in a complete state by the time they got to the UK. It was taken off. One loco now has electro-pneumatic control and the other uses bowden cables.

    The FR did indeed have a push pull fitted set and two diesels were equipped to use it. It was built and maintained by a couple of volunteers and quite an interesting bit of engineering. Sadly the FR changed direction and decided to run all steam services so it fell out of use. The driving trailer is now a mess coach.

    Tim
     
  16. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    3,421
    Likes Received:
    3,338
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Brighton&Hove
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    This requires that there will always be the extra suitably qualified driver on hand to ring the changes and keep the timetabled service going at short notice. Were I in Mr Lewin's shoes, that's not an assumption I'd feel secure in making.

    Any MU system adopted would have to best suit the FR/WHR requirements, but to eschew all MU operation on the grounds that the SAR/ZASM system was overcomplicated seems a step too far to my mind.

    I'd be interested to know more about the in-house P-P system used on the sometime Gelliwiog Shuttle. The 'deviation' threw up one whole bunch of creative solutions!
     
  17. Steve B

    Steve B Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2008
    Messages:
    1,432
    Likes Received:
    741
    Location:
    Shropshire
    There is a bit of information here: https://www.festipedia.org.uk/wiki/Push_Pull, and you can follow the links to the various locos and carriages fitted. The system does not seem to be in use any more.

    Steve B
     
    30854 likes this.
  18. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    3,421
    Likes Received:
    3,338
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Brighton&Hove
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Sounds like a variant on the LBSC/SR P-P system, right down to the bloke t'other end doing half the driving! Perhaps some revision of the appropriate BR arrangements? They seemed to work well enough and would have the advantage of being familiar to many from the big railway. Of course, if there's something better to be used ....
     
  19. meeee

    meeee Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
    Messages:
    480
    Likes Received:
    334
    The system used with Moel Hebog was just experimental. If you've ever been on that loco you'll know finding a gear is hard enough when you're actually In the cab.

    In its final form there was no need to have anyone on the loco. It was completely drive by wire. The system could detect which loco was plugged in, either Conway or Cricceth Castle, and then adjust itself accordingly. Control of throttle, gears, direction, engine start and stop could all be done from the driving trailer.

    The brakes used a high vacuum system just like a 1st gen DMU, with a second vacuum pipe to provide adequate braking response from the trailer end.

    Some of the coaches used have now been sold on and as I said before the driving trailer is now a mess coach.

    As for the muiltiple working argument I wasn't ruling it out because it's complicated. I was more that it is a waste of time and money. The amount of times these two locos have been required to double head is probably in single figures. There are standby drivers rostered every day trains are running so the driver issue is covered anyway. It is vastly cheaper just to have two drivers. Even if it had to be done with paid staff. Typically if there is no NGG16 available the train has been covered with two smaller steam engines anyway. That's what the customers what to see.

    Tim
     
    michaelh likes this.
  20. sycamore

    sycamore New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    485
    Likes Received:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Guard & Signalman (E&BAR) / Driver (HVMR)
    Location:
    Embsay or Bolton Abbey, sometimes in between...
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    out of interest, are train lengths reduced during leaf fall or do passenger figures naturally reduce anyway this time of year? Or do the Garrett's have a sufficient power reserve for the potentially challenging rail-head conditions anyway?
     

Share This Page