If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

FR & WHR & WHHR News

Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by AndrewT, Jul 17, 2012.

  1. Paulthehitch

    Paulthehitch Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2020
    Messages:
    379
    Likes Received:
    597
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Hayling Island
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    The most evil whistles are the sirens favoured for showman's road locos. They hurt if you are aboard when sounded.
     
  2. goldfish

    goldfish Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2009
    Messages:
    10,424
    Likes Received:
    5,625
    That would be a shame as they look so great together double-headed…

    Simon
     
    andrewshimmin and Monkey Magic like this.
  3. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2018
    Messages:
    2,133
    Likes Received:
    4,490
    Location:
    Here, there, everywhere
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Yes, I can imagine it has been very tough for them, and of course we don't know what next spring will look like either. I am glad Paul is well and still involved. I tend to read Inside Motion, and when I occasionally see a copy of the magazine, somewhat wearily as there normally seems to be an obituary for someone that I worked with. I was sad to read about Ged Parks passing. He was quite a character.
     
  4. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    5,329
    Likes Received:
    5,371
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Brighton&Hove
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I wonder whether the folks at the 1863 Mountaineer project might someday consider giving their steed a 'falsie', to represent that intermediate condition?

    It also features in a published history of the Groudle Glen Railway, though I can't easily access it to establish original credit. So far as Polar Bear's (fortunately short lived) "fairground" look is concerned, ten out of ten for imagination, but minus several million for overall effect. It was truly vile !!
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2020
    andrewshimmin likes this.
  5. MuzTrem

    MuzTrem Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2011
    Messages:
    775
    Likes Received:
    806
    On the contrary - I (genuinely!) think that it was charming and characterful, and I would love to see it again. Apparently Amberley have sworn never to paint the original Polar Bear into that livery again, but perhaps the team at Groudle could be persauded with Brown Bear...!

    Re. Blanche - much as I love her in her present green livery, I see no reason why she couldn't carry some different liveries at some point. There's no need to worry about historical accuracy, since the loco in its present form is a post-preservation creation anyway. She is quite a modern-looking engine, though, so perhaps not one of the more elaborate Victorian schemes. BR maroon, maybe? It would be a good match for the red-and-cream coaches. Or maybe recreate Linda's midnight blue from the 1990s...
     
  6. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    5,329
    Likes Received:
    5,371
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Brighton&Hove
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Well, @MuzTrem if livery preferences aren't subjective, nothing is. At least Polar Bear was spared one of those stupid so##ing faces! Got to say, I really do like Brown Bear's colours.

    Perhaps perversely, I've occasionally imagined a 'grouping liveried' double fairlie. How does plain black, LMS on the left tank and a five digit running number on the right grab you? Of course, the only likely reason a passenger service, or more probably anything at all east of GyP might've survived under LMS auspices would've been to rub the GW's nose in it, though I do reckon the bowsiders would've looked better in red than chocolate & cream.

    Wot? C'mon ..... we've all seen CR No.4 in faux GW garb, haven't we?
     
  7. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2018
    Messages:
    2,133
    Likes Received:
    4,490
    Location:
    Here, there, everywhere
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Would you like the Alco restored to this condition?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  8. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    5,329
    Likes Received:
    5,371
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Brighton&Hove
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    If you mean serviceable ...... that's an unqualified yes!
     
    weltrol and Poolbrook like this.
  9. MuzTrem

    MuzTrem Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2011
    Messages:
    775
    Likes Received:
    806
    Well, at least that's one thing we can agree on! :D

    It would certainly be interesting, and it could probably be done Fairlie easily (groan!) next time one of the double engines is overhauled...since the FfR usually turns out engines in plain balck for running in, all you'd need to do is remove the nameplates put some stick-on numbers on the side. Providing matching coaching stock would be trickier, but it would look fine with a rake of slate wagons. Why not put it to one of the photo-charter organisers? :p
     
  10. MellishR

    MellishR Part of the furniture Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    Messages:
    5,252
    Likes Received:
    2,970
    I was thinking about the noise when a loco blows off. It's painfully loud for someone standing nearby, but surely worse for someone on the footplate with nothing between them and the valves.
     
  11. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    5,329
    Likes Received:
    5,371
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Brighton&Hove
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    TBH, it's been one of those persistent mental images which, since it first germinated, won't damn well go, although I'd not seriously thought of owt beyond a photoshop job, which is way beyond my own paltry abilities, or larger than a 16mm/ft scale, which isn't, but would cause excessive ructions on the domestic front!

    And @Monkey Magic, in these days, courtesy of t'interweb, we're all a lot more familiar with locos surviving elsewhere, but to those of 'a certain age', Mountaineer isn't merely some random Alco, but an established Ffesterbahn stalwart. For my part, I'm sanguine about the cab .... and the livery. Whilst the Fairlie style cab it last saw service wearing does soften it's appearance, to my mind, the sloped sided construction it wore, back when I knew the line, somehow quite suited it's decidedly utilitarian outline. In any case, I'm pretty sure Garnedd Tunnel wouldn't be too kind to the large variant shown in your photos! :D
     
  12. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2018
    Messages:
    2,133
    Likes Received:
    4,490
    Location:
    Here, there, everywhere
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I am wondering if a scaled-down version of the shed cab it had (that itself was an addition to its WW1 appearance).

    It has run in WD colours so why not PTP colours? (Additionally all crew must wear berets, smoke Gauloises).

    I guess Mountaineer rebuild will be wanting its nameplates back as well.
     
  13. meeee

    meeee Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
    Messages:
    607
    Likes Received:
    651
    Depends on the type of valve and the boiler pressure. The Ross Pop valves on Blanche of deafening. The Ramsbottom and Salter types on Linda or Lilla a usually just do varying degrees of fizzing. They only really get loud if you keep trying to push the pressure up. Like on a boiler test for example.

    Tim
     
  14. meeee

    meeee Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
    Messages:
    607
    Likes Received:
    651
    You would probably end up with a lack of headroom. The cab would have to be very low or curve down at the corners like Lyd. I'm not sure why you want to lumber it with a garden shed on the back, especially when it is a smart machine as it is.

    You can go and see both PTP and WD versions in France. In fact they only live about an hour away from each other. Do we really need a pastiche of one in the UK?

    Tim
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2020
    Steve B and andrewshimmin like this.
  15. marshall5

    marshall5 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2010
    Messages:
    1,517
    Likes Received:
    1,645
    Location:
    i.o.m
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    FWIW The TPT acquired 3-23 in Oct 1935 and increased the cab height by 20cm at the same time as the cab back was enclosed.
    Ray.
     
    Monkey Magic likes this.
  16. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2018
    Messages:
    2,133
    Likes Received:
    4,490
    Location:
    Here, there, everywhere
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Well it ran in a pastiche WD livery in the past on the FR. And you did mention putting Tal in GNR Green, and we've had Lyd in BR black...

    It is a fine loco. In the context of different liveries/schemes that could be applied - why not TPT style? If you get Tal in GNR Green why not Alco in TPT guise?
    Allez français!
     
  17. andrewshimmin

    andrewshimmin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,567
    Likes Received:
    1,736
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Mountaineer is much handsomer with the latest style of cab than that TPT classmate.
    Obviously the next few years need to concentrate on survival and recovery, but there's a big groundswell of support for the Alco, so I hope and imagine it will be front of the queue relatively soon.

    Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
     
  18. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2018
    Messages:
    2,133
    Likes Received:
    4,490
    Location:
    Here, there, everywhere
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    The TPT loco in the top two photos is Mountaineer! (The bottom one isn't).

    I seem to recall though that there were some complaints about the current cab (I can't remember what).
     
    andrewshimmin likes this.
  19. meeee

    meeee Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
    Messages:
    607
    Likes Received:
    651
    Paint jobs are one thing. They are easily changed and relatively harmless. It's the more structural changes that I take exception too. Especially if they turn a useful loco into a useless one.

    The slopey cab caused problems because there was no room to lean out without banging your head. The cab is relatively cosy but that is partly because the boiler is too long. It's very spacious compared to a double engine. I found it quite comfortable especially in the worst Wales has to throw at you. The best thing was you could reach everything from the seat if you wanted.

    If you want to see Mountaineer running then money talks. The FR society has a fund set up even if it is not actively fundraising for it. So if you make a donation and specify it is for the ALCo it will go there. The reason the likes of Tal and Lyd go straight into overhauls is because there is money in the pot. Without that it can be difficult to show there is support beyond angry comments on Facebook.

    Tim
     
    andrewshimmin likes this.
  20. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    5,329
    Likes Received:
    5,371
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Brighton&Hove
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Unquestionably true and whilst "angry" certainly doesn't describe my own position, there's a case for "slightly bemused". I'm very glad to hear there's a ringfenced pot for this iconic machine, but fully understand why that fact isn't being shouted from the rooftops.

    So far as touting for donations goes, without definite goals, there's precious little point in trumpeting any restoration fund, as many who are hell bent on seeing the loco at the head of timetabled services are unlikely to favour anything short of that goal and those who'd prefer to see it displayed in a presentable condition (where?) seem likely to wait until certain that will be it's eventual fate. Nor will too many be likely to dig too deep, without some definite statement of intentions from the board.

    AFAIK (and I'm open to correction), there are three identifiable opposing viewpoints concerning the eventual status of the restored Alco, namely, display only, or restoration for either 'heritage, high days and holidays', or restored as more of a 'second row' frontline loco. In none of those cases is there much which can be done to draw up a schedule of works, on which to base any estimates of time or cost, ahead of a complete stripdown and examination. It's about now I'll confess to being distinctly glad I'm not in Mr.Lewin's shoes!

    At the moment, the situation, without serious project funding, suggests:

    (a) do nowt, as it's safely stowed away, out of harm's way
    (b) give it a cosmetic only restoration for display purposes

    As I see it, to go further, the only sensible course for now is to form some reasonable estimate for what'd be involved in facilitating a stripdown. What happens next seems entirely dependant on what's found, with the likely options being:

    (c) throw hands up in despair, estimate cost of tarting up components for static display
    (d) throw hands up and approach the donor's representatives for permission to sell
    (e) whoop with delight that it's not as knackered as seems likely, estimate cost of repairs to either heritage or active status
    (f) whoop with horror at a condition worse than anticipated, estimate cost of repairs to either heritage or active status

    In all the above cases, as happened with Welsh Pony, the views of the membership will need to be considered, before anything much else could reasonably be expected to happen.

    That's just my own thoughts. Others may see things rather differently.
     

Share This Page