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Forgotten "preserved" Steam engines

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Coboman, Nov 23, 2010.

  1. estwdjhn

    estwdjhn Member

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    She's been out of traffic all year, initially for work on the axle boxes, then because of minor issues with the firebox. Hopefully she will be back in traffic next season.
     
  2. 44806

    44806 New Member

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  3. John Petley

    John Petley Well-Known Member

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    A very sad fate for an engine which once worked on the main line. Unfortunately, unless someone feels like buying the frames and wheels, straightening the former out and building a new boiler, it's hard to think of the situation improving for this engine. The owning group also owns (30)830, which will need a great deal of work (and money) before it will steam again (I remember seeing it when it was based at the Bluebell) but it does at least have a boiler and presumably decent frames, so I guess that once 30825 is back in traffic, this will be the next project, leaving the remains of poor old 30841 to become even more obscured by undergrowth and gather more rust.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2016
  4. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Part of the furniture

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    Dame Vera Lynn looks a bit 'rough' as well
     
  5. 44806

    44806 New Member

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    Thankfully though, the Dame is currently being overhauled however she does look in bad shape :confused:
     
  6. The Saggin' Dragon

    The Saggin' Dragon Part of the furniture Staff Member Moderator

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    What does the firebox, on the tender chassis belong to?
     
  7. banburysaint

    banburysaint New Member

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    I think 80135. The locomotive needs a new inner and outer firebox. Currently this is awaiting the conclusion of a contractual issue.
     
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  8. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Part of the furniture

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    So would you after 100,000 miles!
     
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  9. 61624

    61624 Well-Known Member

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    Not just 100,000 miles, 100,000 miles in the course of a single 10 yr ticket. Are there any other locos that can match that?
     
  10. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Part of the furniture

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    80135? 48773?
     
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  11. torgormaig

    torgormaig Well-Known Member Friend

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    The 841/825 rebuild follows a typical preservation theory that a loco's identity is governed by the frames that support it. This certainly was not the way Eastleigh normally worked and had this rebuild taken place there, back in the day, it would in all probability have been outshopped as 841, given that frames apart most of it is from that loco. I do not suppose that many, if any, S15s underwent frame swaps, but many of the T9s did. All those converted to oil burning after the war were withdrawn when the oil burning experiment came to nothing. However most were dismantled rather than cut up and the frames that were in good nick were reused on other members of the class that remained in service for another decade or so. For those who know, 841's tender looks out of place on an earlier built S15 as the large flat sided tenders only ran with the later ones.

    It is of course the owners perogative to turn the loco out in any way they want. What ever number it carries it has to be said that it is a cracking good loco and a credit to the owners.

    Peter
     
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  12. Reading General

    Reading General Well-Known Member

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    Isn't the problem that they don't have enough boilers as one of the boilers was bought from Barry by the Uris S15 group who therefore have one too many. Does an extra boiler thus exist and is it in this very advanced age, as regards boiler repairs, repairable and re-unite-able with the spare frames? Could a deal be done perhaps?

    I don't know the story , maybe the "northern" S15 Group bought the boilerless chassis as one of their sets of frames was in poor condition.

    Interesting story, and I agree with Peter , it is entirely the Owners prerogative what they do, no criticism implied.
     
  13. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    There was a case around about 1960 when two "long frame" and two "short frame" M7s entered Eastleigh. If you believe that a locomotive's identity goes with the frames, some months later the locomotive numbers would tell you that the short-frame locos had been overhauled and the long frame locos scrapped. Visual evidence was very much to the contrary, since what emerged were two long-frame motor-train equipped locos. Eastleigh had clearly used the best bits to make two locos from four, needed the long frames in order to mount the air cylinder for the motor train equipment, but used the short-frame loco numbers for reasons no doubt obvious to the bean counters.

    Tom
     
  14. andrewshimmin

    andrewshimmin Well-Known Member

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    Don't know how true it is, but as a small boy in 1980s was told by an elderly acquaintance whose father worked at Horwich (or perhaps Derby) that it was not uncommon for e.g. standard 4-4-0 No 723 or whatever to come into the shops, have fittings, tender, cab, boiler, wheels removed, assessment of frames - frames need repair, frames moved off the line, good set of frames substituted, wheels from wheelshop on (from classmate), standard boiler on from boiler shop (came off a standard 0-6-0), cab on (from corner of shop, not sure which loco came in on), fittings on (new chimney, old whistle back on as nothing wrong with it), off to paint shop, pick up next available tender from line, number 723 back on, out of works...
    For operational and accountancy purposes, same loco.
    You get the idea.
    My informant referred to this as a "jack up the whistle and assemble a new loco under" overhaul, and opined (this would be about 1990) that Flying Scotsman needed such an overhaul PDQ...
     
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  15. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Part of the furniture

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    Hence NRM staff getting annoyed about a certain A3 being referred to as 'Triggers broom'...
     
  16. Phil-d259

    Phil-d259 Member

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    I believe that one of the conditions if the sale of 830 by the Bluebell was that the loco must not be used as a spare parts donor and should be restored to service. If the agreement is to be honoured then it does sound like 841 rather doomed as an entity in its own right.
     
  17. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Part of the furniture

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    Out of curiosity, in the 'old days' how did the cost of a 'heavy general' compare with building a new loco? From the discussions about Lyn it seems that US tended to opt for the 'build new after 10 years option in many cases
     
  18. andrewshimmin

    andrewshimmin Well-Known Member

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    Cost is not the only consideration.
    A repair (or a "repair") is operational expenditure, while a new loco is capital expenditure. This has sorts of implications - approvals, budgets, taxes, etc. It might be easier to spend a lot from one budget than a little from the other.
     
  19. Gav106

    Gav106 Well-Known Member

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    I am a member of the Urie group and I believe the last time I asked the question they said they bought the 3rd boiler as the original had inner firebox issues. But with recent improvement's in welding this can now be sorted and it might be cheaper to restore the original boiler. If anyone was seriously interested In the boiler contact the Urie society and ask them if they were willing to sell it. With needing funds to get both 499 and 506 in steam I'm sure they would be willing to look at options.
     
  20. Reading General

    Reading General Well-Known Member

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    options that might produce an extra loco.. I'm sure they are all well aware of that
     

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