Flying Scotsman

Something something what are photographers contributing something?

 

… Something something if it used wooden bodied carriages it wouldn’t need to be so powerful anyway something mumble …

Tom

 

Something something 10 or so s*ng*e ch**n*y A3s were once rumoured to still exist as part of the str**gic r****ve, stored in a cave somewhere near Sna**b*ach.

 

Now you’re talking. Is it time to sit back with a bag of popcorn or a pint of the best?

 

Oh come on, everyone knows this is arrant nonsense. They're 9Fs and they're in Box Tunnel.

 

No, King Arthurs under Glastonbury Tor

 

This often repeated story is now believed to've originated from 1960s drug-fueled confusion with a fabled Hornby-Dublo-gauge 9F prototype batch, which may or may not've been produced in 1963 but never released before the Tri-ang takeover. Rumoured still to exist "in a Box in a Tunnel" under Liverpool. Maybe they'll turn up on the last day of the Hattons closing-down sale.

 

You like to imagine this story making its way to the highest echelons, and the Prime Minister deep in a bunker somewhere making plans to try and rebuild the country in the aftermath of nuclear devastation, only to learn that in order to make full use of the strategic reserve he's going to need a large piece of plywood and a plug socket.

 

Has everyone been watching Family Guy for some reason?

 

I thought the King class were hidden in carparks in Leicester.............I'll get my coat.

 

Only No. 6015.

Peter

 

I have only just caught up with this discussion. I am slightly confused as to whether the
discussion driver is livery or performance,

Some thoughts, apologies if they are reinventing the wheel.

Yes of course in ultimate terms an A3( or even an original A1 ) should develop more
power than a Jubilee. The long, comparatively gentle’ gradients of the ECML favour
a 4-6-2. But I think if I were to be brought to a halt at Scout Green with ‘13 on’
the chances of restarting the train might be better with a 4-6-0 eg a Jubilee.

I have been reading the RCTS vol 2A, specifically, blast pipe alterations during the
BR period. The fitting of new liners and cowls as per Swindon experience apparently
improved steaming with poor coal but at the expense of water and coal consumption
( especially with 60104 ). Does this suggest that the final superheat temperature was
lower ( I think I remember in the 1920s that changing the length of S/H tubes led to
final S/H temperatures of 600degrees F with longer tubes, 630 with shorter. I.e too
close to the smoke box. ) and therefore whilst the ‘amount of water boiled’ was higher’
the ultimate enthalpy was significantly lower.

The subsequent fitting of double blast pipes and chimneys QUOTE “ resulted in a
marked improvement in the performance of these veterans “

I agree that FS should remain an active loco for as long as possible. I think it should
not have any mods that might reduce its maximum IHP and hence it’s possible uses.
The modern mainline railway is not conducive to running express steam locos limited
to 75mph maximum. As a result the work required on adverse gradients often exceeds
WTT requirements of the 1950s

( As an aside FS when it visited the WSR on morning number three slipped to a halt
on the 1/80 leaving Bishops Lydeard with an eight coach train and had to be
rescued. For the rest of its stay a Crompton was added to the rear. The balancing
eight coach train hauled by a 4-6-0 had no such difficulties. )

Regarding colour, logic says if in late 1950s condition then late 1950s colours. If
there is a popular demand for it to be otherwise then the NRM needs convincing as
to where the funds are going to come from perhaps ?

Michael Rowe

 

In his book 'Living with London Midland Locomotives' (Ian Allan 1977 pp61) A J Powell states that "....the A3s were hopeless for slogging up the steep gradients of the Waverley route until they got their double chimneys". Powell's observations on several subjects seem at variance with conventionally accepted wisdom. Is he regarded as a credible observer?

 

On occasion IMHO perhaps he expresses absolute certainty where others might be more circumspect !

Michael Rowe

 

Quite unlike anyone on NatPres then…?

Simon

 

If that's true, I wonder why they kept four at Carlisle Canal all those years rather than swapping them for some combination of A2s and V2s.

 

And yet did that job for about thirty years…!

 

I've been a bit too busy to sit down and reply to this for the last couple of days. My original post was simply disagreeing with your argument that, because a pre war A1/ A3 could drag 600 tons around it should be well suited to operation on todays railway. Well yes it could probably drag 600 tons around somewhere on the big railway but those lines would be few in number. Like it or not, railtours generally have to mix it with todays frequent and fast timetabled trains and a 7P loco is less able to do that than an 8P. In that context I think it is fairly well acknowledged that a Kylchap A3 was pretty much the equivalent of an 8P apart from the transfers on the cab side. As an aside, I well remember going from Leeds to Kings X in the early sixties, aged 12 or 13. I think it was the 07.30 departure. It should have been a Deltic but for reasons unknown the train left Leeds behind 60073. The crew rose to the occasion and it was a spirited run with little time lost. I spent most of the journey with my head out of the window (shock, horror) and had a rather black face when we finally arrived in London.
I'll readily admit that a de-tuned A3 can be run on the big railway, just as Jubilees and Black 5's can and do. The difference between Scotsman in that condition and Scotsman with a Kylchap will be a reduced route availability due to timetabling issues or a reduced load behind the tender and we have often heard that the profitability of a railtour is only made in that last coach.
Anyway, Michael Rowe has made the argument for keeping the Kylchap far more effectively than I can so I'll leave it at that.

 

For use on Tyne Valley services perchance ?

 

I think Canal's duties were over the Waverley (and to Silloth). Did the TV have any traffic which warranted an A3? The photos are northwards from Carlisle and at Edinburgh. Anyway for a southern spotter they were a nuisance. Did 68/79/93/95 ever get to London? Maybe on a running in turn from Doncaster.