Flying Scotsman

It just needs fettling! A3's had a very shrill and loud whistle. Just listen to Peter Handfords recording of 'Book Law' on side 2 of the Argo EP 'Gresley Pacifics'

 

D'you know, I think I have that LP... just need to sort out something to play it on! I'm sure I remember the whistle being so much louder before, you see.

I often wonder what so many of these recording were made with. IIRC Boosey and Hawkes actually made a tape recorder with a clockwork transport but battery valve electronics...

 

Are you making the point its uniqueness is newly epitomised by the "blinkers"?!!!!

 

I dare say @Spamcan81 could answer that for you, or, you could try and find a copy of Handfords book

 

Thanks for that, John - just found a copy of the book for £3.30 including post on Abebooks

 

Au contraire. I submit that era was very very important in the development of both reserved railways and gaining an acceptance for main line steam in a diesel era.

 

Get Peter’s autobiography. Some info in there. IIRC he used a Uher recorder for a lot of his later work.

Edit : 60017 beat me to it.

 

Really, the phase I had in mind was the Marchington era, early part of this century. It sure seems like a less than glorious time to me.

 

Oddly enough, I have a Uher Report 4200 - modified by the BBC so reporters couldn't run it at a slow speed!

 

I used to have two Uhers, a 4200 and a 4400.

 

Can they? Last time I was at the NRM, which was around the time of its mainline return, all the Scotsman mugs showed it in apple green without deflectors! The vast majority of the memorabilia showed it in this guise. Perhaps that has now changed, but at that time "brand Scotsman" wasn't looking too representative of the real thing.

 

I have got that LP

Mono too - that could be played on the Auto Deccalian...

 

I may be wrong but I believe that 60103's livery during its last ticket had something do with a certain Mr Ward...

 

IIRC the current style and livery of 60103 is related to the report prepared by Bob Meanley (at the NRM's request) into which he confirmed that (a) the soft exhaust from the Kylchap chimney was a problem that the German Witte deflectors ameliorated and (b) the drifting exhaust would be a greater problem at the lower speeds recommended by the report. In fairness the NRM confirmed that their experience of operating 60103 before its withdrawal for overhaul agreed with the Meanley Report hence their willingness to to restore the locomotive to its present condition.

It appears that many people forget that 4472 / 60103 is approaching its century - a period in which operating conditions on the modern railway have changed beyond recognition. Whilst the Railways Act 1993 - which both presaged Privatisation and gave steam traction the right to operate on the Network - gave steam traction certain rights it also meant incurring the responsibility to be fit for operating on the railway network of the day. If the NRM deems that to include both Kylchap double chimney and Witte smoke deflectors then the the armchair warriors need to accept that it operates in that condition - or not at all !

People should remember that a right that is given can also be taken away hence need to decide whether they wish to see 60103 as a mainline working or a static exhibit; if the latter option then 60103 can be displayed in any guise the NRM desires and posters can "argue the toss" as much as they want.

 

I would argue that double Kylchap is not necessary, It spent 18 months in Australia working in conditions far more demanding steaming wise than exists in the UK. ​

 

With respect Fred I think you are misinterpreting what is being said by a number of people. From what I have read there is total acceptance that with the Kylchap, smoke deflectors are essential as well as being totally historically appropriate.
The point being made is that it would be highly appropriate for '4472' guise to be revived at some point, particularly commemorating the century you mention. If that were to happen, only a single chimney form would be authentic but from an engineering performance point of view this ought not to present any barrier to mainline use. Whether NRM would fund the retro conversion is another matter of course. If it keeps the Kylchap, it keeps the deflectors and BR green would be the only position I expect NRM could credibly adopt.

 

Spot on that man.

I’m not arguing for anything less than the best compromise to show off the liveries - but agreeably, the previous double chimney and LNER combo is not that.

I love the current form: 60103 is how I know Scotsman. She has always been 60103 to me and not 4472.

However I also recognise that is not true for others and it is without doubt her most recognised and remembered form.

 

Obviously at this stage only NRM knows what the intentions might be to celebrate the centenary but 2023 is not really all that far off and with the stated objective of conducting an overhaul ahead of that date, deciding whether or not to "go 4472", and all that might entail, probably needs determining sooner rather than later. If there needs to be some public fund raising scheme for a blastpipe change, better to have it running well in advance. The engineering for it would also provide an interesting new educational aspect within the 'Scotsman' story but I can see that, politically, there may be some reservation about suggesting more spending after the monumental bills of the recent past.

 

I acknowledge that many would like to see 60103 in original guise as 4472 - especially with its centenary fast approaching - but I fear that may cause operating problems that will confine it to heritage line operation only. Given its popularity on the main line - and the premium that increases the generated income to both repay the cost of its latest overhaul and prepare for its next in 2026 - I venture to suggest that the decision to revert to original condition will not be made. This view may upset many but I think its current condition will be retained as long as it operates on the main line and that will last as long as the market is prepared to pay the fares charged.