Ffestiniog t shirts and food overpriced?

...consistent, yes, but not in a good way. Its true you didnt say the WHR was a flop, but it was hardly a hidden subtext - the thread was called "The WHR, success or flop ?" based on one trip and some photo's of a train taken from the other side of the valley.

Now your saying the WHR have 'conned' you (before admitting it was your own fault), and your even suggesting they subsidise fares because they received public money. Im afraid you'll have as much success arguing all that as you will the idea that the north is cheaper because people up there have more principles...

Chris

 

I am at a loss to understand this sentence. What, for example, does 'Welshified' mean? The name of a place is the name of the place wherever you are in this world. Place names are not a problem confined to Wales, whether or not you 'think' that you cannot pronounce them. Try asking a non English speaker to pronounce Derby or Leicester.

Meic

 

''consistent, but not in a good way'' don't you mean ''consistent but not in your way ? I can fully understand that WHR supporters would be upset at any criticism, but i am firmly convinced there is another way to manage the WHR. This forum is an excellent means to discuss any changes that can be made in the future. This is a passionate subject going by the numbers of new members who come on here because of the WHR threads and so they should, let's hope we can have a fruitfull discussion without it turning aggressive.

 

If you can show us how your method of running the WHR would result in figures better than a YTD revenue up by 70%, we'd be delighted to hear your ideas.

 

The figures ! It's normal the revenue is up by 70%, this is a new railway, in other words 100% of 0 is still 0. i would like to see the profit figures at the end of this year and 2012 to get a better judgement. Filling trains with OAPs travelling for a fiver as mentioned above whilst other's pay the full wack is not good management, but for the moment it's too early to tell. I would like to see a dynamic railway with smaller trains but more of them, one of the reasons why it's important to have the WHHR as a partner. Cheaper fares with the average wage earner in mind and reductions for OAPs, the unemployed and students. The comprehensive construction of staions on the line in harmony with the area concerned. Exchanging the Garratts for smaller locomotives, these were always out of place in north Wales. The list is long.

 

I can not comment on the price of FR merchandise but I do find the food on the FR dissappointing. I have though not been for an evening meal at Spooners though.

On a personal bass I find that disappointing as when with the family it is nice to put money across the tills if possible. Last week for example we ate at the Talyllyn, WHHR and at the Point on the fairbourne and for what we were looking for we found all better that the FR. WE avoided the FR this time becauuse of previous experience.

I would though not critise the FR though because as Andrew says it is supply and demand. They have limited space and capacity and appear busy. Whilst that is the case the fact it may not meet my personnal preference maybe personally disappointing but the aim of the FR is not to meet my personnal preference but rather to run a busy profitable catering business. That they appear to do.

 

duplicate post

 

"The name of a place is the name of the place wherever you are in this world. "

Sorry Meic. This is just not the case for Wales. Here, place names have been changed in recent years as part of the campaign to produce bi-lingual illiterates.

Just because the Welsh want to change place names does not mean that it should be accepted by the visiting English who have known towns by their English name since childhood. In many cases, I think that it has been quite insane to obliterate internationally known brand names for the sake of Welsh PC.

Dolgelly, Barmouth, Portmadoc, Festiniog Railway (incorporated as such) etc.

Are you going to complain to every Frenchman for calling the English capital Londres?

In any event, I have eaten at Spooners many times and find the fare acceptable to good.

 

No, i mean consistently throwing out ideas and arguments that dont stand up to scrutiny. Your latest - shorter but more frequent trains - ignores the most basic problems, such as a lack of the neccesary volunteers, a need for more on-train catering staff, service carriages, paid staff, and the extra weight, wages, volunteer hours, construction and maintenance costs per-seat it would create. Its also worth remembering that new WHR coaches have a much smaller seating capacity than the old Ashbury's before you start trying to turn back the clock.

Your suggestion would make a little more sense if the WHR had lots of carriages but not enough passengers, however during peak season the opposite has been true. What the line does need are three (or more) carriage sets, which was and remains the plan - but short 3/4/5 coach trains dont make sense.

Chris

 

Er .... 'bilingual illiterates' ? Perhaps you might care to enlarge on that.

You may know these places by their 'English' names but the fact remains that they are not 'English' but merely lazy corruptions of the correct name which mean nothing in either language. You are quite correct in pointing out that the Festiniog Railway was incorporated as such but the town it serves is Blaenau Ffestiniog. Since Wales has lived under English Law, the system has done as it has pleased but it doesn't make it right.

It has nothing to do with Welsh PC. Even the Western Region of British Railways set about correcting the anomalies of spelling, including Dolgellau, and that was in the ninteen fifties. Hardly a case of 'place names have been changed in recent years as part of the campaign to produce bi-lingual illiterates'.

Meic

 

Mmmm..... there is an old tale that when the Ordnance Survey sent their first teams to Wales they found many farms with the same name on the gate, something like "Byddwch yn Ofalus y ci" and were perplexed how to differentiate between them until it was pointed out that this means "beware of the dog"...... :tongue:

Foxy

 

You're doing what you've just falsely accused me of doing !! Don't fall into the trap of looking at my proposals from the actual context, for example concerning the coaching stock, in my initial posting i used the words ''with modernisation'' or words to that effect, this would stand not only for the stock but for the general principle IE keeping the best of the old whilst making use of modernisation. Of course the change that i would like to see coudn't be done in a day, i woudn't expect it to be, but as a long term goal nothing could be better. More smaller trains would require passing loops, signalling etc etc, a whole series of infrastructure changes, but eventually all this would make the railway a lot more interesting from an operational sense and would be more intresting for all. Yes it would create more work and hopefully so, the more so the better. I would also like to see the center of the WHR taken away from Portmadoc. I think all the problems that would be encountered could be overcome, obviously i'm not expecting such a revolution in management to be everyone's cup of tea, but that's my opinion.

 

As a first time visitor this year on a trip round 10 of the narrow gauge railways in the Snowdonia area, the ride on the WHR was definitely the highlight.

I loved the line, and the Garratts, and the rolling stock, and the views, and the station at Porthmadog.

For those who want the small historically-correct engines pulling short trains of old stock at low speeds, there are many many choices already! The WHR offers something different, and it seems to me that the public money invested in it was intended for exactly what it has turned out to be - a top class tourist attraction that brings in people, money and business, by offering a great experience. I doubt that the Welsh Assembly were putting the money in for the purpose of offering subsidised rides to gricers/railway enthusiasts.

And I do think it was good value for money overall, given the duration, distance and stunning scenery.

 

For my part I like the look of the Garratts but I'd like to know how historically accurate they are. By that I mean if the WHR had been viable all those years ago, would Garratts have eventually been purchased and used by the old WHR? If not then I don't see the point in them. Except for one thing, they are stunning engines. However the historic significance and tradition of the FR engines made me choose the FR for my day out without hesitation.

I met several volunteers on the FR and know one now quite well. A lovely man who travels a long way to volunteer every year during the school holidays. He worked this year as a guard on the FR and WHR, while also visiting the other local railways while in the area. Nothing snobbish about him at all. The FR was losing money a few years ago. Clearly this isn't the case any longer. This is of course a GOOD thing.

The WHHR exhibit in Portmadoc makes it pretty clear that the WHR could never be a viable local line in its own right with typical ticket prices ala BR GWR etc. An hours trip between 2 villages on the WHR would take 10 mins by bus. But as a tourist attraction the WHR could in my opinion take a lot of advice from how the Severn Valley Railway turns out its stations. Judging by what I've read on here there is no attempt at trying to generate an experience of being back in time at all. This would not be nostalgia so much as part of a historic experience, part of what makes the SVR the best standard gauge railway I've ever been on. (Partisan BS really as I live across the road.)

 

I just want to say that when i used the word ''snob'' it was the impression the railway gives off and not individual members, this is mostly to do with it catering primarily for the rich, secondly your remarks about the SVR stations are perfectly in line with the way i see things.

 

The WHR is a new railway built on a very empty trackbed so it is difficult to compare with the SVR. Attempts have been made to beautify stations however the effort was not generally supported by the local sheep. It will be many years before the WHR can be described as 'finished' and work progresses as time and funds allow.

 

Im not really sure what any of that means. The best bit of the old WHR was the route through Snowdonia which has been rebuilt and improved upon with the extension to Caernarfon.

I think its very important not to mix up what you want and what the vast majority of people visiting the railway, volunteering on it and donating to it want.

Sorry, but you cant criticise the WHR for high fares then suggest increasing the need for staff, maintenance, loco's, volunteers and infrastructure.

Chris

 

Out of politeness i would like to reply but you've lost me, never mind, be good to see others take on the debate.

 

I might add, I have been working in Porthmadog for a few months now and I have not found the railway expensive at all. In my opinion you pay for what you get. The alternative is shoddy food from down the road... I have eaten in many places during my stay and still I can't find anywhere that offer the same value for money.

As for the journey, well compare the price to railways of similar length and think you will find that is also good value for money... If it is to expensive then don't travel as far, a trip halfway is just as pleasing.

Finally in my opinion the jury is out on a lot of the comments on here, but lets face it, if every heritage railway was rebuilt and run with purely an enthusiasts point of view then sustainability would go out the window. This is 2011, if you want to see railways to grow and prosper then I think the critics should belt up and enjoy what is still a fascinating hobby regardless of commercialisation!

Rich

 

''belt up'' makes me wonder why some people come on a forum !! Luckily there are critics, people who have the courage to speak their own minds !!