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ETL [ACLG] To dispose of fleet

Discussion in 'Diesel & Electric Traction' started by markb846, Jan 27, 2013.

  1. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Part of the furniture Staff Member Moderator

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    I wonder if 86259 will get GSMR?
     
  2. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Guest

    The other option is preservation overseas.

    The preserved EM2's have worked in Preservation in Holland.
     
  3. markb846

    markb846 New Member

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    Yes indeed it has. It was booked for a trip today from Euston to Preston. I think from the 31 Jan only GSM-R fitted locomotives are allowed south of Rugby on the WCML. As NRN has been switched off south of the Wash
     
  4. xg125

    xg125 New Member

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    It wasn't really preservation, as they did work in public service. It's rather like what's happening to the 86's and 87's now in Bulgaria. I mean if the 86's/87's were to take the same course as the EM2's then maybe a couple could be repatriated in the future.

    See the resemblence?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  5. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Guest

    They may have worked in Holland, but it doesnt stop them being preserved there too..
    Your picture is a preserved example.. indeed it's running a railtour ! :)
    Didnt E27000 also return to Holland briefly or was it a repaint ?
     
  6. markb846

    markb846 New Member

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    Better get out with the camera while there is still some heritage traction running about in the UK I hope to have a trip outwith 86259 in a couple of weeks. I guess one reason why the ACLG feel they have to dispose of their 86's and 87 is too many locomotives, and too few resources. Still sad Willisden will not have an 87 on shed in the future.
     
  7. Peter Hall

    Peter Hall Guest


    If I recall correctly though, during the late 1960's and early 1970's the then existing heritage lines were generally not up to giving the larger steam locomotives much opportunity to stretch their legs. In addition the majority of the locomotives that were involved with early preserved main line steam running were then located at the likes of Carnforth, Didcot, Dinting, Ashchurch and Tyseley with only short demonstration lines at best.

    Although AC electrics cannot be run on preserved lines there is if I am not mistaken is a line where they can run in Leicestershire that is not part of the national railway network. OK, it is not open to the public but presumably it could be used to give locomotives that may return to the main line in the future a chance to stretch their legs. Perhaps the ACLG need to have a cuppa with Harry at Barrow Hill sometime and see what might be possible as his 47714 presumably stretches its legs their more often than we ever hear about.
     
  8. Allan Thomson

    Allan Thomson New Member

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    With regards to being 'unable' to run electric units on a preserved railway - on the IOM Electric trams have been ran on the steam line, sans overhead by the use of a generator car. Whilst it may involve more expense, what's to stop UK preserved railway doing this if they really want electric traction but don't have the overhead?
     
  9. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Guest

    I recall the owners of E27000 investigated the options of running under batteries or even an AC/DC converter in a BG attached, guess nothing came of it.
     
  10. meeee

    meeee Member

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    This has been done before with EMU's. The east lancs 504 was run with a class 25 in the middle acting as a generator.
     
  11. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    But a class 87 (for example) is 5000hp. Even if you ran it at less than peak power, you'd have to create a vehicle with a diesel engine of a couple of thousand hp and a generator and other gubbins to produce electricity at 25kV 3 phase AC. That's a pretty serious bit of kit, of comparable complexity to the class 87 itself. So you've just doubled your cost and maintenance overhead, just so someone can see a class 87 running at 25mph without overhead wires and being pushed by a diesel. Doesn't work for photographers (no overhead wires; a dirty great generator thing tagging along behind) and doesn't work for (presumably they exist...) electric traction gricers (because all you'd hear would be the throb of a big diesel engine). So what's the point?

    Tom
     
  12. markb846

    markb846 New Member

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    Went past Willesden this afternoon. 86401/701/213 all coupled together with their pans up. I guess their owners are trying to keep the transformers warm. Suppose this should be taken as an encouraging sign. 86259 was also on depot standing outside the service shed. Just to answer a few points on using a generator to power an electric loco. You only need a 110V dc supply to get the auxiliaries to work, along with a 7 bar air supply. The nominal 25KV supply voltage is single phase. However there was a plan to power up one of the earlier AC locomotives by breaking into the transformer secondary circuit. While this is not ideal it would bring the voltage needed to a more manageable level. However I agree the current requirement is likely to be quire high. There is always that well known weekend practice of dragging electric locos around none electrified lines while the WCML was nailed back together.
     
  13. vanbasher

    vanbasher New Member

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    Hello all I have been milling this news aswell it is indeed a very sad turn of events. Someone mentioned earlier do electric gricers exist and I am happy to say we do. I am a class 87 nut always have been growing up in Macclesfield with regular 87 haulage on my doorstep started a love affair with an extremely good loco. The news of ETL pulling out however really doesn't come as much of a shock, the fact is the work the AC fleet has had (such as royal mail standbys for GBRF) Has dried out and charter demand for the AC's has also been poorer than anticipated. 86101 to this day has only performed 2 public charters the 1st in March 2007 was Compass Tours Ynys Mon Express from Carlisle-Crewe. And her second was Pathfinders Atomic Harbormaster just a few weeks later, 87002 has done slightly more railtours but has missed out on what was arguably one of the best moves in the 21st century, when 86101 worked for 6 months with Hull Trains, the first regular class 1 86 hauled train for years.

    It is extremely sad that these fine locos have a very uncertain future (at present) however the joys they baught us leccy nuts will never be forgotten. My next move is to go out on the day when 86101 and 87002 move from Carlisle back to Willesden and get as many shots as possible as they could b the last. Cheers all VANBASHER.
     
  14. markb846

    markb846 New Member

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    I heard a rumour last Friday Network Rail are going to cover the cost of installing GSM-R on locomotives already registered for Mainline running. I have just had a quick look on both the ACLG website, and the WNXX news page but have not seen conformation of this. The design work for the 86's has been done already by Freightliner. But the 87 may be more of an issue. For those interested in Electric Trains why not visit my new Facebook page Electric Trains UK | Facebook
     
  15. vanbasher

    vanbasher New Member

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    I'm afraid Mark there has to be certain guidelines for locos having GSM-R paid for, so the decision looks final unfortunately no one regrets this decision more than I :( VANBASHER.
     
  16. markb846

    markb846 New Member

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    The latest issue of Rail is also carrying this story, but does not say anything which is not in the ACLG press release last month. The cost of the F exam on 86101 is put forward as the main reason that has been stood down. I have emailed the ACLG to try and get clarification of the position of 86213 and 86401. It maybe that as ETL is a commercial concern rather than a heritage operator why 87002 has fallen foul of the GSM-R guidelines. If I get anything conclusive I will post it here
     
  17. richards

    richards Well-Known Member

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    On Saturday's Winter CME (2nd March), the electric locos at Willesden weren't seen in their usual location. However, 87002 was used at Carlisle to heat the stock while the steam loco was serviced. Perhaps its last 'passenger' use?

    Richard
     
  18. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Guest

    It's kind of odd to think the engine that brought the train here will outlive the engine that's warming us up.

    Saying good bye to old friends 87002 on a train at Carlilse
     

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  19. markb846

    markb846 New Member

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    86213/401/701 were visible at Willesden this afternoon along with 86259. all 4 locomotives had their pans down 90048 was on the Virgin Mk3 set at Wembley yard
     
  20. duncananderson

    duncananderson New Member

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    Some pictures today from Willesden. The same four locos are around, but this time all pan up.

    Presumably by the fact that 86213 is here then it's duties as a shunter at Wembley have ceased for the time being.
     

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