If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

Engines Being Scrapped?

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by 69621, Apr 5, 2012.

  1. 69621

    69621 New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2008
    Messages:
    118
    Likes Received:
    24
    Just seen an advert on the TractionAds site for 2 Polish Standard Guage locos - which "must sell or scrap in the next few weeks".

    Any one know anything about them?
     
  2. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Guest

    The ad refers to 0-6-0t engines known as class TKh49.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:TKH_4015,_Bitton.JPG

    it maybe a surprise to some but there's actually 6 of these in the UK, and have a passing resemblance to USA 0-6-0Ts, but are definitely not. They are slightly larger than UK gauge, but they will fit, hence there use at several preserved lines.

    The pkp numbers are TKh49:

    2871 (unknown) - was Bridgend, reported spa valley, but stripped
    2944 (arrived uk 1997) - none operational spa valley railway
    3135 (arrived uk 1997) - Operational spa valley railway
    3138 (arrived uk 1993) - was (maybe is) operational Appleby Frodingham railway society
    4015 (arrived uk 1992) - operational avon valley railway
    5374 (arrived uk 1993) - was operational Northampton lamport railway

    (all locomotives were allocated a state railway number, but many never saw state service, working in various factories .. Imagine it as every j94 having a BR stock number, but only a select group were actually capital stock)

    from this my guess is the 2 none operational ones at spa valley.

    Beyond these, there are 3 others, 1 in Switzerland, 1 in Belgium and 1 in France.
    There are around 20 in Poland, two operational, 1 preserved near Krakow/Katowice (restored circa 2009) and one in PKP inventory (officially stock, but in reality preserved) at Chabowka.

    Interlok at Pila will have spares for these no issue.
    At 44 tons of steel (no copper), I'd imagine ths will be as cheap as it gets for a standard gauge steam locomotive in scrap condition.

    Fyi, in 2006 I was quoted €60,000 for one purchased with full overhaul to operational condition, pkp documentation maintenace history back to when built new.
    The larger 0-8-0 version at nene valley was offered for sale a few years back, with a few years on its ticket for I believe circa £60k on ebay !
     
  3. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2005
    Messages:
    9,519
    Likes Received:
    8,066
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Alderan !
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Both appear restored but in need of boiler work

    Spa ones iirc are out of gauge for the section alongside network rail
     
  4. david1984

    david1984 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,910
    Likes Received:
    1,387
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Birmingham
    I get the impression the Spa Valley is at that stage now where it's less reliant on such loco's, having ex Mainline machines on first call and a few industrials to back them up.

    The TkH49 is really a loco for a line in an embroyonic state where Working Industrials are hard to come by and ex Mainliners a distant dream, they pretty quickly get binned once a line gets more established what with having sweet FA ties with the area or even the UK.

    Im sure there's enough small organaisations out there that would be willing to take them on, whether they could afford them is the sticking point.
     
  5. 3855

    3855 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2008
    Messages:
    581
    Likes Received:
    412
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    inside a boiler
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    They have been for sale since 2009 and even though the asking price has dropped still not found a buyer. Shame really as from a maintenance point of view, outside valvegear, welded steel firebox and stays etc they have a lot going for them.
     
  6. 73129

    73129 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2007
    Messages:
    4,492
    Likes Received:
    1,067
    Location:
    Winchester
    On the same topic I read in Heritage Railway mag that the Elsecar Railway are removing components from Avonside 0-6-0 loco No 1945 and are selling the frames and boiler for recycling.
     
  7. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2005
    Messages:
    9,519
    Likes Received:
    8,066
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Alderan !
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    discussed on here a while back .

    It seems a shame to cut up a perfectly good loco . any idea on the asking price ?
     
  8. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Guest

    Any idea on condition ?

    It says complete,with air, vacuum and heating. Potentially it could be an straight forward restoration, agreed if its a pre1990 PKP firebox it could also be a pig. From what I've seen all the PKP bargain buys of the 1990's were sold with full overhauls and most went straight into service with their various preserved lines, so chances are they could have recieved a new steel inner one.

    Therein lay the problem, the bargain buys we're that good (<£10k for a loco with ticket), is the owners didn't have funds to do the next overhaul, and so many end up laid up after 10 years.

    As for prices, polish locomotives, due to sheer volume, don't commend premiums over scrap.

    The massive BR52 (146 tons) at nene valley was offered for circa £30k at one point.
    Another 52 was sold in Poland for £17k.
    a TKT48 (78kg) is for sale for £12k in Poland right now.
    and an ol49 (125 tons) went for scrap here for £4k about 2 years ago !

    At 44tons of steel would a tkh be around £9k ? At scrap value, with power of about a 2f (Equivalent to say like a J72) with a 15 ton axle load, and, If you must, a bit of smoke door decoration / paint job could be a USA tank lookalike.
     
  9. 3155

    3155 New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2008
    Messages:
    197
    Likes Received:
    29
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    loco owner
    Location:
    aintree
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    The asking price for the 2 TKH locos has come down again, basically, it is thought that the boiler off the unrestored one could at small cost be repaired & fitted to the other loco which is complete & had been in working order. Almost a buy one get one free, main problem is the width over the cylinders.
    I have an email from the owner who is now desperate to sell, or he will break the locos & sell parts.
    For more info & contacts, please PM
     
  10. L&NWR

    L&NWR New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2011
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    0
    How low has the price got?
     
  11. 3155

    3155 New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2008
    Messages:
    197
    Likes Received:
    29
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    loco owner
    Location:
    aintree
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Please PM
     
  12. NUTSPLITTER2

    NUTSPLITTER2 New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2011
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    0
    On a further, related topic; some years ago somebody imported a batch of steam locomotives from, I believe, Finland. They were way out of gauge, both track and clearance. One was at a Theme Park in Cornwall. Anybody know what happened to them?
     
  13. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2006
    Messages:
    16,494
    Likes Received:
    7,714
    Location:
    1012 / 60158
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    At least one is at the Epping Ongar Railway and is up for sale.
     
  14. martin butler

    martin butler Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2008
    Messages:
    3,440
    Likes Received:
    388
    There are also 2 finnish engines at selinge, an 0-6-0 tank and an 2-8-0 tender engine , in my view, ex finnish engines are only worth the scrap value because they are not standard gauge and unless you have bottomless pockets to pay for new axles and new cylinders without the releave valves so they fit uk loading gauge unless you want to start another preservation sceme , relay the track to 5 feet, buy in some finnish bogies and coaches , all of course should earn the proposser a vacation in a nice padded cell ,

    Ihope that the 2 polish engines get saved, because as said previously , they are usefull starter engines, and if complete and in good nick could be worthwhile short term motive power for someone once the boiler work has been done , whilst only loosly based on the USA, are the polish locos about the same tractive effort ?
     
  15. L&NWR

    L&NWR New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2011
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    0
    Quite so. As far as I know it the only 2-8-2 tender loco in the UK. It would be very nice if somebody can negotiate with Epping and Ongar so that it can survive. I know of at least one site that would like to have it. I think a number of the Finnish locos have found homes and at least one should be back in steam soon. I don't know if anybody has seriously looked at regauging. Can anybody come up with scrap value plus transport cost (or something approaching that??)
     
  16. 3155

    3155 New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2008
    Messages:
    197
    Likes Received:
    29
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    loco owner
    Location:
    aintree
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    LNWR,

    Please send me a PM
     
  17. SR-Simon

    SR-Simon New Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2009
    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    4
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dorset
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I am glad to hear that one of the Finnish locos is being restored to steam again. L&NWR is correct - the Finnish 5ft "Mikado" currently at Ongar is still available for sale. It is easily accessible for loading/transportation, and as it is taking up space that is required for other purposes - if a buyer does not soon come forward with a sensible offer and prompt collection, we have no other option but to find other ways to dispose of this (cut it up for scrap). Please feel free to contact me via the EOR website.

    Simon, GM, EOR.
     
  18. david1984

    david1984 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,910
    Likes Received:
    1,387
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Birmingham
    Even if it was regauged, surely it would be out of gauge at all but possibly the Nene Valley ?, I fear their obscure gauge may be the death sentance for these Finnish Loco's :(
     
  19. TenWheeler

    TenWheeler New Member Account Suspended

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2011
    Messages:
    149
    Likes Received:
    3
    Goodness me. I've just seen a photo of it. You'd scrap a magnificent thing like that for the sake of the space that less than half a dozen cars could fit in. In the 21st century!

    What a bunch of vandals. I'm disgusted you've put your name to it. Shame on you.
     
  20. david1984

    david1984 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,910
    Likes Received:
    1,387
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Birmingham
    What exactly do you suggest they do with it then ?, It's just about useless for operation anywhere in the UK and a fledging line like the EOR probably doesn't have the volunteers or income to look after a useless asset while trying to get a new line up and running, they have offered it for sale, but if there are no takers I don't see what choice they have.

    Tough decisions have to be made sometime unfortunatly, the Diesel Preservation lads are finding that out in that they can't preserve every 37 and some of the poorer examples in pres are having to be let go as a result.
     

Share This Page