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End of RM's on the 9 and Bomber Command Memorial

Discussion in 'Everything Else Heritage' started by MrHillingdon, Jul 25, 2014.

  1. Victor

    Victor Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    The old machines were at least reliable, you should speak to my lad re the new Volvo Hybrid machines, he mends em and I can tell you reliability is NOT their strong point. They don't like it when it rains heavily and the bill for replacement batteries is eye watering. A lot of the bendy buses went to Malta, they didn't last long in the sun, they're now being offloaded to anybody in Africa "who fancies a challenge":rolleyes:

    With the old AEC's you could clock on, mount up, COMPLETE a shift, and the bus would be ready for another day, just dip the oil and fill it with diesel.
    I've got a lot of respect for AEC engined machines, in my working career I was lucky enough to get 2, brand new, straight out of the box. a AEC Marshall 6 wheeler, 7.7 engine, and a Mk5 Mammouth Major, 8 wheeler, 11.6 engine. They both gave excellent reliability.
    It was many years ago, The new modern Euro machine with their massive engines and auto boxes...........rubbish, I'll take the 50/60/70's motors any day of the week.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2014
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  2. Grashopper

    Grashopper Member

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    I know for a fact that there is a dire shortage of spare components for the unique RM brake system to the point where new brake control valves will need to be manufactured ASAP (amongst other components) at great cost (a cost above what most preservationists could afford, or want to pay). They also require specialist knowledge of how to maintain and set up said brake systems which is now dying off as older engineers retire. The brake system is one reason I never travel on preserved RMs; I used to be in vintage bus restoration and acquired this knowledge, and therefore know what a state most of them are in! Just because they pass an MOT, doesn't mean they are set up correctly or make them safe in the hands of some drivers (IMHO). Mr average bus owner (plus some operators) do not have a clue or will not pay to have they system set up and working correctly. I include some former LT garages in this statement, I used to get hired in to set up the brake systems for them!

    There are still a couple of hundred RMs and derivatives in the UK, so really no great loss if a few go for spares. In my previous career, we used to buy scrap RMs from the LT garages and then sell the parts back to the garages (at great profit) due to their short-sightedness in getting rid of them!

    Saying all this a properly set up RM is a joy to drive, and there are a few special ones out there like RM116 which still retains its' unique Citroen hydragas suspension...quite why LT decided to fit this is anybodies guess!
     
  3. Grashopper

    Grashopper Member

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    Now
    Some of the AEC590s we had used to knock like crazy, but seemed to go on forever! We stripped a couple down for inspection but they were ok, it was put down to "diesel knock". It was the quiet ones you had to watch.... Having no temp gauge on the RMs meant they could develop a coolant leak and seize up, one of our engines did this on at least 3 occasions over the years (the joy of old vehicles) and still kept going once cool. Another engine had a slight head gasket leak that meant it would hydraulic lock if left for a week. Once the cylinder was cleared of coolant, it would be fine as long as it was in use day after day as it only leaked when cold.

    You can't operate modern vehicles like this!
     
  4. Victor

    Victor Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    I didn't know about the brakes. Briefly could you give a clue as to why they were so "delicate".
    As for a diesel knock on an AEC, there was no finer sound when it was on tickover.:D
    It shouldn't have been a major engineering exercise to fit a temp gauge on 'em , the big AEC engined lorries had them.
     
  5. buseng

    buseng Part of the furniture

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    Don't know the full details but I think the RM's had some form of power hydraulic brakes. The Leyland Titans of the late 70's/80's & also the LT Metrobuses had a modified version.
    I worked on the Titans & they were god awful to maintain the brake system. Charging the accumulators was an ongoing job. How many occurrences did we have of the "warning flag" dropping in the cab? I have lost count.
     
  6. Victor

    Victor Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    Strewth, the "warning flag" on the AEC's.
    I was only a young lad (no licence) I ran an 8 wheel AEC M Major straight into a wall. I hadn't waited for the air pressure to build and the flag to do it's party trick, no "spring brakes" in those days, they would move without air. Yes, I got an almighty round of *********'s. But I learned a valuable lesson
     
  7. Grashopper

    Grashopper Member

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    I did a quick google search (rather than do my own description!) and this page describes the brake system and a bit of maintenance too. http://www.rm1872.org.uk/Brakes.html It does not mention that the foot brake valve also has an "emergency" position beyond that of "full service" which is applied by pushing harder to overcome the spring.

    I used to have the gear to do all this maintenance plus a set of hydraulic gauges to check and reset setting all the pressure cut-offs. Just because the accumulators are ok (a relatively straight forward check) does not mean that the pump or pressure check valves are up to scratch.

    Age related problems with the system are that the pumps fail; the pump quill drive shafts shear; the brake valves castings are now worn out and have already been re-sleeved a few times to the point where the castings are U/S. Cracked foot brake castings are now quite common (having witnessed one while I was testing over a pit, they go with a mighty bang!). There are no longer any more castings or rebuild kits and the costs of making new are quite obscene for individual bus owners - I have heard a figure of £5k quoted for a new foot brake valve including all the machining, this is based on a production run. There is also a lack of serviceable accumulators suitable for further overhaul.

    Another problem for preserved RMs is lack of use - everything seizes up including the brake shoe pivots. I have had many fights with these which involved scaffold tubes and a gas axe. The trouble with the private owner is he will say "I haven't driven it much since last year so it should be ok" (always rang warning bells with me) and "the brakes feel alright"- that is until they put a load of people on it.

    While none of these issues I mention are insurmountable, they are all expensive fixes nowadays, beyond the budget of Mr Average bus owner.

    As an aside, all the original gearbox casings are porous and AEC fluid flywheel seals (Lewellyn glands) are made of "unobtanium". I went to the place where they made them years ago and the elderly gents who ran the company were about to retire and close up shop. A family member is still in the bus restoration business and the general belief of some owners is that all these parts should be out there as there were loads of RMs - the reality is very different.
     
  8. Victor

    Victor Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    The old saying......."you're never too old to learn"
    I didn't know or realise that life for RM owners is very difficult.
    Where is there a Riley like engineers for old AEC's. We could certainly use them.
     
  9. Grashopper

    Grashopper Member

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    There are a couple of firms that can make the parts required, it all comes down to cost.
     
  10. Bulleid Pacific

    Bulleid Pacific Part of the furniture

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    Ms Alison Forster, late lamented GM of First Great Western back in the good old days of 2005-2006, or thereabouts.
     

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