Double Decker

And I don't regard myself as poorly informed either. But neither have I got aspergers syndrome and retain all train information in the frontal lobe of my brain. Well I assume...

 

Thanks for posting this fascinating thread. I have a press pic from the time, of a wooden mock up with some passengers squeezed in. Twice in the write up it says due to loading gauge, the top windows do not open. Perhaps the failure was to do with summer?

 

Has anyone yet spoken to Adrian coulls to ask if the NRM could offer this coach a home? assuming that the Selinge group would let it go as they either are not interested in it, or the owner has lost interest in it, after all a schools class tender chassis was broken up for scrap to raise funds when i was there, the wheel sets were saved and went to the Bluebell, but the chassis got cut up by a scrap merchant ,i understand the chassis was suppossed to have been bent or wharped

 

Would the NRM be interested? Although the DD coaches are now rare and fascinating survivors they were not historically significant, little more than a one-off experiment which led nowhere.

 

Are these coaches the only example of Double Decker stock built to the UK Loading gauge? Id say they were pretty significant if they were.

 

Rare - yes.
Significant - no.

There are very few failures in the NRM collection. Photos maybe, but not the real thing which would take money and space to preserve.

 

But surely the real thing can tell the story a whole lot better than a photo? Ie whats more impressive 60163? Or a photo of one of its deceased sisters?

 

To restore it or even conserve it would be a massive task and very expensive. Money and time that would be better off used elsewhere I'm afraid

 

Just like apt-p, APTE and they have an NRM home.
But as an example of double deck stock in the UK, they are quite unique and would have thought NRM worthy... Indeed as a restored coach on the NRM running line a ride in a double decker would be a unique affair to many who haven't travelled widely by rail out of the uk.

 

might this be a suitable candidate for the nat pres scheme, it should be fairly complete and if enough people can get access to it, it should be possible to do some preventative maintaince , ie replace glass, make it water tight do an cosmetical overhaul on it but its dependant on 4 things, the owner willing to give it up to the NRM, raising enough funding to pay for the materials needed , and the support of the Selinge group to allow working parties access to the coach ,and finally someone to sponsor the transport of the coach to York

 

*If* the NRM accept an item for its collection, then any work to it would presumably need to be carried out to their specifications in terms of materials, the experience of the people doing the work, and what work was actually done.

 

So here we are, a project that the NRM did not feel worthy of rescuing years ago and some keen enthusiasts come along thinking it would be a good idea to preserve an electric unit. Now that those enthusiasts have realised the effort it takes to keep rolling stock maintained they have arrived in the real world. The real world is where many enthusiasts already are, daily trying to keep our heritage railways going. Therefore we should not expect the NRM to take on projects that become difficult, no-hoppers or scrap candidates. The NRM set their stall out years ago by not preserving the unit, for whatever reason.

 

Yes, but this is hardly another mark 1.

To lose this would be a bit of a loss, someone mentioned this to be a Nat pres project...

Maybe if the owner donated it, the NP membership rallied to its restoration then at the end of it donate it to the NRM....its nil burden then,...if this flies..next step.. Who's got £100k to restore it ?

 

After their input into the Flying Scotsman repair i would guess that would be a material spec of cardboard, papier-mache, sticky back plastic and finished off with poster paint?

 

The surviving Bulleid DD cars – 13003 and 13004 are, for the UK at least, unique in design and concept so on that merit alone it would be disappointing to see them disappear especially considering they were withdrawn so long ago in 1971 and have survived until now.


What to do with them? - I assume (a personal assumption devoid of any knowledge of the current owners plans or aspirations) that both cars current keepers would rather see them saved than decay any further and would be amenable to them being donated to a dedicated group or a body like the NRM.


Who would pay for them to be restored? – Personally failing a lotto winning SR EMU fanboy, the NRM or a millionaire with a Double D fetish (no not that kind) I see no hope for these cars future, the last-best hope I can see is for the crafting of a HLF grant for both cars if they were included under common ownership with a comprehensive plan to conserve, restore and display or run in limited use at a heritage site for educational and historic purposes as the core of an working original set.

The condition of both look to be rough for sure but the structure of the cars seem to still be recoverable, so if they were made fit to run either in Pull-Push mode or just locomotive hauled (I think electric use is out of the question) then I still see as case for their retention and use; they would be a novelty if used for short journeys and I do believe that they would be a albeit minor attraction if market right to Mr Joe Pubic.


Where could they go? – After restoration one could go on display at York but what of the other? If separated they have limited appeal, but if both were rebuilt and used together as a set they would have a better chance of survival and use that just a couple of large static exhibits.

Where could they be used/displayed or run? - Three or four possible places spring to mind, the East Kent Railway seem to be a natural SR-EMU home (diesel hauled), or a static display at the Electric Railway museum at Coventry, both seem to be doing good work in the EMU preservation field.

Also Isfield could be a suitable home for display and/or limited use, or possibly even somewhere like the Mid-Hants where they could be used for the shuttles that are run Alresford<>Ropley and Alton<> Medstead on gala’s and such, this type of usage would naturally mean either diesel haulage or the addition of vacuum brake system for steam.


My personal view is that the two owning groups need to merge or donate the cars to a new organization that can craft a HLF proposal and get the cars undercover and conserved. If somewhere like the Mid-Hants (who has a good record with HLF grants) or Bluebell can assist the group with project advice and post restoration storage in exchange for limited use then the survival of these two cars in assured for the next 10=20 years, otherwise it is just a matter of time before another small piece of our railway history is eradicated for good.




A 4DD in happier days: Source http://www.semgonline.com/gallery/4dd.html

 

The one in the photos is owned by a private individual who also owns the Stirling 01 at the Bluebell and several other items of rolling stock, most of which historically priceless but now is also heavily decayed through open storage. All of it including the DD were bought direct from BR and were complete. He is now extremely elderly, extremely eccentric and has not been interested in selling any of it despite numerous offers over the last 4 decades he has owned it all

 

I remember seeing them in Ashford circa 1975/6.

 

No disrespect to the gentleman in question but that description would have been apposite back in Ashford Steam Centre days.