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Dominion of Canada and Potential Disposal Story/Rumour

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by 242A1, Oct 15, 2018.

  1. Maunsell man

    Maunsell man Member

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    Export it via India. Sure they can de-asbestos it for 100 quid...

    ....where is asbestos Alf Roberts when you need him. Sure he could do it for even less
     
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  2. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Part of the furniture

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    Just a black plastic bag, dustpan and brush for him!
     
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  3. ragl

    ragl Member

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    Riiight, will there?


    Cheerz,

    Alan
     
  4. JayDee

    JayDee Member

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    Nope, was already covered in the "Henry VIII" clause in the great repeal bill as it was termed. So all relevant laws are being shunted over with a quick crayon of scribbling out the "eu" bits and replacing with UK. Which was lots of laws, fahsands of em.

    Depends on if DEFRA then push further. Blue asbestos is already a bugger of a thing to deal with, but I can't see any legislative problems seeing as they did the great gathering previously and you'd have to remove it to restore to working order anyways.

    Loan or sale, it all comes down to contracts the laws of which are not going to magically vanish on us leaving.

    Edit: I'll also point out when artwork is sold it has to run a cultural impact gauntlet. Is said artwork going on public display? Is it culturally significant to the UK and it's history etc? Many states have similar checks, none of which Dominion of Canada would check, it was a UK built engine to a USA wheel design by a chap who, as far as I am aware never lived in canada. The only thing it had going for it was it's name.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2018
  5. fergusmacg

    fergusmacg Well-Known Member

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    Sorry - no we are not talking about our laws adopted from the EU or not, we are talking about arrangements currently in place between the EU and Canada for accepting hazardous materials transported between the two which will cease when (if!?) we leave. Not really my field of knowledge so I'd best leave it there.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  6. JayDee

    JayDee Member

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    Well being as the Canadians only banned it's use... Today; and still have various exemptions in place for it's use in certain industries I suspect the hazardous materials handling side was simply done to EU standards. Like any export you export it to Target market standards and not your own unless they are harmonized.
     
  7. garth manor

    garth manor New Member

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    Dunrobin stripped of asbestos before repatriation 7 years ago.
     
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  8. Quicksilver2510

    Quicksilver2510 New Member

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    Don't want to start a livery froth, but would it really be Nat Pres if I didn't? :rolleyes:

    Is 4489 the only preserved A4 to have ever carried apple green? Would look nice with the single chimney...

    Hang on a second... didn't someone mention that an LNER Pacific with a single chimney wouldn't be up to mainline work...

    *Runs for cover*
     
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  9. toplight

    toplight Member

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    I think people are jumping the gun a bit with the Canadian A4. The steam railway article basically gives nothing concrete, just says they are having a review of their collection. It is like the NRM having a review of theirs and suddenly assuming that particular locos are available.

    Even if they do have a review, as the A4 is now in good external condition it is probably easier to keep it and dispose of unrestored stuff. Ironically in its previous rusty condition it would probably have been more likely to go than now. The only thing that probably does help is that it has been to the UK recently and was well cared for there so they know there is interest in it here.

    Even if they do get rid of it they may decide to just donate it to an appropriate home like the NRM has done with its recent disposals, rather that offer it for sale.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2018
  10. W.Williams

    W.Williams Member

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    If I may join the speculative gathering.

    Whats to stop the NRM accepting it as a gift but running the same competitive tender process done with FS but adding a lease agreement to overhaul and run her for 10 years then re lease?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 18, 2018
  11. 35B

    35B Part of the furniture

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    A collections policy and their parent organisation’s budget constraints?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
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  12. Quicksilver2510

    Quicksilver2510 New Member

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    Whilst I quite agree that we are in speculation realms, in some senses I don't think that the A4 being disposed is as unlikely as you say. The post up the thread that detailed the museum's policy for review changed my view from this being mere rumour to thinking it may well happen. For one, the tone of the statement seemed quite concerned for the state of their unrestored stock. They may choose to lose some of it, but it's hardly going to be a money spinner, and may well end up going to scrap if disposed. As people have suggested, the A4 holds a very tenuous connection to Canada, which even alone makes it a compelling contender for disposal. However, we know that 5 years ago sizeable offers of money were put on the table for purchase of the locomotive. Quite reasonably at the time the museum wanted to keep the locomotive, but now they are reviewing the situation. From their perspective, they have opportunity to gain some undercover space, send a surplus locomotive to what they can assured will be a good home (nobody in this country would buy it for scrap whoever they may be), and potentially make the best part of £1m out of the move. That could then go to help conserve and restore some of their other stock.
    Again, all my opinion and speculation, and I don't mind being proved wrong, but to my mind from their end it's a no-brainer.
     
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  13. Jimc

    Jimc Well-Known Member

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    No, but the actual original paper the article is based on, referenced above in post 31, perhaps says a bit more. In particular the owners' mission statement is very Canadian specific, and the paper specifically talks about rationalising the collection and reviewing non-Canadian pieces. Bearing in mind their financial position appears to be much worse than that of their UK equivalents, it would be irresponsible to gift the locomotive if there were cash on the table from what appeared to be a good home. Quicksilver above seems bang on the money to me.
     
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  14. Eightpot

    Eightpot Well-Known Member

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    Was this article another Steam Railway 'exclusive'?
     
  15. garth manor

    garth manor New Member

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    Article is based on published project statement from the CRHA which runs the museum where the loco is exhibited, BR gave the loco to the CRHA, their current visitor attraction data on their museum website does not highlight the British rolling stock at all, it is reasonable for SR to feature a news item and open speculation as a magazine to generate interest for potential purchasers. Given the previous loan we can speculate that the NRM might be given first option to buy should they decide on disposal, presumably an appeal would follow. Dunrobin plus might be a starter for the value of the other loco which seems from here a very obvious candidate for disposal.
     
  16. toplight

    toplight Member

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    It seems to have been prompted by the loco being moved from their main exhibition hall to another less than ideal unheated exhibition building (where it previously got rusty).
    From the article:-

    "The A4 which shares shed space with expatriated Brighton Terrier No 54 Waddon is not accessible to the public in winter months. She has been moved from the railways 'car showroom' to its 'garden shed', Mr Davies told Steam railway"

    Steam railway then seems to have interpreted this and the document about the review as meaning "Its up for grabs lads !!" Just need to get the asbestos off first. !

    Can I put my bid in ?, does it include "free delivery" to the Swindon and Cricklade ? :)
     
  17. The Green Howards

    The Green Howards Part of the furniture Friend

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    <livery froth>

    Ooh! An apple green A4... now that I'd pay to see!

    </livery froth>
     
  18. Quicksilver2510

    Quicksilver2510 New Member

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    I know SR's reputation and would not want to be included as part of their cavalry. I certainly have no loyalty to them, and haven't read the article, dismissing it as some of their usual sensationalism. But then even a stopped clock is right twice a day. Perhaps in this instance I'm the stopped clock and my keenness to see 4489 repatriated and running has let my head get ahead of the facts. But putting anything that SR has said aside and purely reading the Museum's report, things look hopeful. And perhaps therein lies our advantage. Even the most (understandably) skeptical enthusiast, surely finds this too good to be true rather than wishing it not to be. Steam Railway may make more noise than is warranted, but if it communicates the desire to have 4489 back in a loud way, then is it not likely the museum would notice that? She would undoubtedly be a star, we saw that 5 years ago, and with 60009 bowing out, a new star would be most welcome.

    You are welcome to put a bid in, I would applaud you for doing so, but nothing at all will be cheap about this locomotive, which maybe, just maybe, might be the reason we get her.
     
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  19. MellishR

    MellishR Well-Known Member Friend

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    The Canadian museum is the current owner of this loco, so its board/trustees/whatever-they-are can presumably do as they please with it. They could very well choose to sell an item that is of little relevance to their function and use the money to help with the rest of their collection. There would seem to be many parties in Britain who would love to have it, and a few of them may have, or be able to raise, enough cash; but I can't see the NRM being among them. One A4, and by far the most famous one, is surely quite enough for their collection when they're tight for space and have already disposed of some locos.
     
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  20. Greenway

    Greenway Part of the furniture

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    If it came up for sale then anyone in the world, who has enough money, could bid for it. Don't assume it would, automatically, come to the UK. Given its appearance and affinity to Mallard, someone, somewhere, who sees an advantage, might want it and use that affinity to good financial purpose. One only has to read the history of 5972 Olton Hall to realize what can happen with fame. 5972 still exists but so do other replicas.
     
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