Do railtour operations need a unified voice ?

Surely it's not in the interests of main line steam to leave everything to the market. We know from the situation with the banks that when that is allowed to happen, catastrophe can follow, and then the cost of putting it right is much higher.

No, what is needed is either self regulation or regulation imposed by a third party. Unfortunately it is completely in the interests of Network Rail, and probably most TOCs, for main line steam to disappear, so we can't expect them to take on the job.

As I've said already, I believe the loco owners, individuals and groups are the best placed to provide this unifying voice. None of the Promoters can exist without them after all, and as I've said already, they have the interests of the assets that make it possible at all most at heart.

Does anyone else agree with there's some mileage in this idea, even if only as a topic of conversation ?

Look at the results of the poll Neil, the numbers are against you !

 

You haven't answered my question: why should the successful parts of the railtour market allow a 3rd party to tell them what to do? They are obviously successful because they know the market they want to target, operate over routes suitable for the locomotives they use, have a successful working relationship with a TOC and Network Rail.

If you want the industry to regulate itself you'll have to explain to those who are successful why they should give all that up?

 

I think it about setting Industry Standards that all have to respect. The successful ones have nothing to fear because the standards will be set at their "Best Practice" level. It will then mean that the rest and any other aspiring entrants will have to achieve those high standards or be forced off the network. Success has nothing to fear but being dragged down by the lack of success by others. They should want to protect their hard earned reputaions from being sullied by the poor standards of others.

Oh and thats before anyone mentions Great Railway Journeys of Britain and a link to Kingfisher. Who wouldn't want high standards set in stone.

 

Why should self regulation be something successful players in the industry are afraid of ? They should welcome it before it's imposed on them.

Other successful markets have to regulate themselves, and prove they've done it. Why do you think most organisations have a Policy and Compliance Manager these days ? I really can't understand the reluctance.

 

That doesn't answer my question at all! Come on, I know you can do better than this.

 

Thanks for the reply. Still not sure I agree with you and nor do I think that anything will actually happen under the current system. The railtour industry seems very fragmented and many people wanting to do different things. Trying to unify them or create a standard which everyone has to conform too will stifle the innovative side and experimental nature of some of the companies. You may want to suggest that a 3rd party body would set standards but ultimately they might stop what has made the industry successful to date.

 

I think self regulation is probably the way to go as I agree with you a third party may stifle some of the innovation. That said, maybe some of that is needed as it is exactly that kind of "innovation" and "experimentation" from Mr. Dobbing and his crew that will ultimately make it easier for main line steam's enemies to convince others they're right.

Luckily we have this thing called "open access" at the moment which is a real barrier to forcing steam off the main line. Unfortunately though, even that won't save it from "death by reputation" a cause of death which it could be argued, RTC are doing their best, (unwittingly I expect), to ensure spreads far and wide !

 

With aplogies to MLK:

I say to you today, my friends, that in spite of the difficulties and frustrations of the moment, I still have a dream. It is a dream deeply rooted in the Steam dream.
I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all tours are created to an equal quality."
I have a dream that one day on the great hills of Cumbria the sons of Network Rail and the sons of steam tour operators will be able to sit down together at a table of brotherhood.
I have a dream that one day even the county of Yorkshire, a desert state, sweltering with the heat of injustice and oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice.
I have a dream that my four children will one day live in a nation where they will not be left distraught at the failure of a Steam Seaside Tour to make it to the planned destination on time.
I have a dream today.
I have a dream that one day the City of London, whose Network Rail Managers lips are presently dripping with the words of interposition and nullification, will be transformed into a situation where little black 5's and and big Pacifics will be able to pass through unfettered.
I have a dream today.
I have a dream that one day every valley shall be exalted, every hill and mountain shall be made low, the rough places will be made plain, and the crooked places will be made straight, and the glory of the Steam shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together.

 

Surely what's needed is some organisation to bang various heads together (between promoters, stock providers, loco owners, and Network Fail), to arbiter when things go wrong, and hopefully develop some sort of long-term strategy for mainline steam (and even diesel). T-bird Frank is correct that the current method of muddling along with nobody in charge of a long-term survival strategy is complete madness. This same 3rd party organisation could also stand up to NR and remind them of their open access obligations and to get them to stop messing promoters around, such as we saw on Saturday. Why couldn't the HRA do any of this?

 

The HRA possibly could if anyone decided to test it. Unfortunately, the "players" in the industry know as well as we do that a cancer of complacency and acceptance among the ever decreasing circles of "regulars" will let them off the hook, and keep progress at bay. We even have them on here doing their level best to argue against taking sensible precautions to ensure a new generation of consumers / enthusiast is created.

 

Would you buy a used car from any of "them?"

 

I asked the same question earlier - blimey that's already 4 pages back now at post #63. We don't half like going round in circles on here

 

Sorry, I didn't see it. Anyway, somebody else with the right idea!

 

It is a bit like that yes, something of a limitation of how these forums work I guess as it's quite a slow process turning pages, and when a topic is attracting posts at the rate this one has, it's easy to miss something and repeat a point already made by another member. It can't be helped sadly as everyone wants to get their point posted and will only spend limited amounts of time turning pages if the point they want to make doesn't appear on the "current one"

 

If I go to a shop and dont like the service/product, I dont go again......simples

 

Exactly right, though if you were buying apples, and you knew you liked apples, you might buy them again at a competitors store. If however you'd never eaten them before and you hated this first example of them because they weren't in the best condition, even though not representative of that apple at it's best, you may never buy another apple again, which is the problem we'll be having developing a new, younger and wealthier market for mainline steam excursions.

 

Worrying to see the gap in the poll is closing between those with the right idea, and those looking for a beach and some sand to bury their heads in.

 

Or it could be tactical voting just to wind you up...