Discussion on EMU's from the Cig 3 thread.

The 4-VEp is now looked after the Southern Electric Traction Group (but still owned by Bluebell).

http://setg.org.uk/news/

 

The NRM and Network South East Railway Society are restoring a 2-Hap to museum display condition. http://www.projectcommuter.org.uk/

 

I don't know if there is enough (or any) interest outside our circles (and Rod Hull) in emus. Even dmus are pretty unloved, although they have their uses.

Best thing is to get behind a 4TC project, a multiple unit without doubt, even if it isn't emu or dmu. As a representative of a marvellous BR(SR) flexible system, the Swanage project deserves to succeed.

 

I agree a 4TC to most people looks the part of an EMU and the Swanage is the perfect line for it to run on.

 

Plus werent the through trains from and to Swanage formed of 4 TC and 33/1 after the end of steam?

 

Yes, TC's made it to Swanage on a number of occasions between 1967 and closure.

 

I can't claim to be an expert in any respect, but in addition to this I don't think the lack of heating is confined to steam heat related issues. The EOR's website when talking about the reasons for them seeking to sell the 3CIG is that it needs third rail power for both heating and lighting (thereby limiting it's use) - and that comes from a railway that does diesels well.

Steve B

 

There have been many discussions about re-wiring an EMU so the heating ran off an external supply such as a diesel loco's ETH or a generator in something like an MLV. It seems to be possible just the standard preserved EMU problem of too few volunteers.

JP

 

You haven't mentioned post-refurbishment 4CEPs... or 'concrete slab stock' as we called them. The most uncomfortable train seating since wooden benches in open wagons. That's what you get for letting Swindon loose on Southern Region stock...

One small correction to the above. 4CIGs did indeed stray into Kent. If you'd changed at Tonbridge on your commute in Network SouthEast days you'd have found they were used on the Hastings line. I travelled on them many times, which was infinitely preferable to the horror of 4VEPs and refurbished CEPs. But all were massively inferior to an entire childhood spent riding the Hastings units...

(Just for the record https://www.flickr.com/photos/60693939@N05/8243960851)

 

The refurb CEP were only marginally better than the VEP and the doors were stif when returned from Swindon.It was discovered that instead of filling the hinges with a grease gun a blob of grease was applied to the hinge to make it looked like it had been done

 

I would love to travel just one more time between Manchester Victoria and Bury in the class 504..

 

If I recall correctly the refurbishment of the 4CEPS took place at the time that the closure of Swindon works was announced and the quality of the works fell greatly on post announcement units!

 

Growing up at Woking just after the end of steam i saw the changes first hand, Bills and Hal's on the semifast to Guildford, the Nelsons on the Pompy run, then when displaced onto the Aldershot Ash Vale route, the Veps and TC;s rode better than the newer Veps and Cigs you could sink into the seats on a TC, unlike th Vep, and those drafts, designed by a masochist the Cigs were a bit better, then we got the refurbished Beps, really horible things, modern elerto stars are a bit better, but those seats are no improvement,

 

There is also the story that the first unit to be returned to Strawbery Hill for testing had problems. It was clearly taking power but would not moove. It turned out that the controller wires had not been crossed over in the composite.. Both bogies were trying to go forward rather the lead bogie going forward and the trailing bogie going in reverse

 

The only times I've ever been on the southern were from Victoria to Brighton twice, the first time I think was a 4CIG, the second was quite a bit later and it was a 319. The other time was from. Charing Cross (I think) to Sevenoaks on what looked like a 4EPB but wasn't, it had a side corridor on one of the coaches leading to a toilet compartment, would have been 1993. Southern experts, what was this?

 

2 HAP I would guess

Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk

 

Agreed the side coridoris the clue that it was a 2HAP. There were complete trains made up of 2HAP units at times.

Dont discount 4EPB from main line use.There was one train which was 2 x 4CEP + 4EPB. The EPB was detached at Tonbridge providing a through service to Maidstone. I travelled in the EPB once and the ride was to say the least rather lively

 

I've just looked up 2HAPs on Wikipedia and that was the one. The class 504 I mentioned which were only used on the Manchester-Bury line before its conversion to Metrolink in 1991 were my favourite EMUs and I travelled on them thousands of times with virtually 100%reliability. They were a revised 2EPB but with a unique side contact 1200v third rail pick up, the conductor rail was virtually encased in wood.

Secondly, bit of duff info previously, the second trip to Brighton, on the 319 started from Watford Junction and by passed Central London. I remember it changed over from overhead to third rail somewhere around Willesden

 

IIRC the NRM are looking at preserving one or more vehicles of a 313 unit when they get replaced from the GN network. These were the first of a whole raft of units derived from the PEP prototype (the PEP units were NOT a 'proper' series of trains like the SUBs HAPS, et), thus continuing the theme into the sliding door era, plus they were the first 'dual voltage' units in the UK. The 455s, 456s, 319s, etc will be with us for a while yet in frontline passenger service - though when the time comes a 455 or 317 car could easily be be secured to illustrate that family. As for the 319s- one of the 319s that formed the very first British train into the Channel tunnel has already been designated for preservation when its time comes.

 

The ORR have repeatedly made it VERY CLEAR that while they cannot technically 'ban' new 'exposed conductor rail' installations (the DLR is an example of a 'shielded conductor rail' system), they will achieve the same effect by making it impossible for anyone to satisfy their safety concerns.

There is a reason why NR are looking at OHLE / battery solutions for the Uckfield, Ashford - Hastings and North Downs diesel sections and its not just down to electrical efficiency etc - its because the ORR have said to them they won't approve ANY expansion of they 3rd rail system other than new sidings / platforms / etc at places where it already exists.

As such, if you wish to 'preserve' a 3rd rail EMU you have two choices. Put it on static display, or restore it (as per the Brighton Belle) / fit modern safety systems (the Bluebell's VEP) so it can be used on the national network.

Calls for a Heritage sector operational exposed 3rd rail electric railway are futile, it won't be allowed - get used to it.