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Devon Belle A1SLT/ UKRT 2nd April

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by Where's Mazeppa?, Mar 11, 2016.

  1. Where's Mazeppa?

    Where's Mazeppa? Member

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    And now for something completely different!!

    A main line steam tour whose prospects aren't riven with doubt, uncertainty, speculation, and all the other negative waves that have inevitably been drifting over this forum in the light of circumstances elsewhere.

    This, if nothing else, should expel the tumbleweeds from the What's Going On landscape (to borrow GfG's imagery from a different forum) - at least for the time being.

    RTT have some times up that correspond with UKRT's "Confirmed Timings" as follows

    Waterloo - Salisbury - Exeter St David's
    http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U59872/2016/04/02/advanced

    Exeter St. Davids - Westbury - Reading - Victoria http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U59873/2016/04/02/advanced

    I think this will be only the second Waterloo departure for Tornado, and it looks like there may be a bit of "Life on the Down Fast Line" to be enjoyed on the first leg to Basingstoke.

    Much to look forward to with this, methinks!!
     
  2. banana patch

    banana patch New Member

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    Only downside if like me you are in standard class you will be at the back of the train all day Still a non stop run by any stream loco from Waterloo to Basingstoke is something special nowadays
     
  3. matthews

    matthews New Member

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    Would I be right in thinking there will be a 67 on the back to drag it back into Exeter?

    There's a light engine path back to Wembley from Waterloo so maybe not?
     
  4. Sean Emmett

    Sean Emmett Member

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    Yes booked on this. Lots of v interesting tours scheduled for this date but went for this as it goes thro Ascot. Timings a bit disappointing out to Basingstoke. Braunton got out to Worting in under even time in Sep 2014, then stuck behind stopper. Was hoping for 50 min or better sch to BAS.

    But in this day and age I'll take anything without shoveage with glee!
     
  5. alastair

    alastair Well-Known Member

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    But surely vanishingly unlikely any of them will operate ? You made the right choice...
     
  6. KentYeti

    KentYeti Guest

    On the face of it a pretty slow time to Basingstoke: 63 minutes non stop.

    But being slowed right down at Woking to cross back to the fast line, and with just 22 minutes from there to the Basingstoke stop 23.5 miles later, should give the big pacific a chance to stretch her legs a bit.

    Anyone filming from the lineside might get a very nice sound track somewhere around Brookwood or on up to the summit at Milepost 31. West Byfleet man please note! LOL!
     
  7. KentYeti

    KentYeti Guest

    Enjoy it!

    The steam record to a Basingstoke stop from Waterloo was on 15th May 1965, 21.20 to Bournemouth, 43mins 48 secs with a severe tsr at Wimbledon. Gordon Hooper, Dave Wilson aided and abetted by Brian Smith. 35005 on ten cars. We went on to reach 105 mph approaching Winchester Junction. Net time to Basingstoke was circa 41 mins 30secs, which was equalled a few times on the 17.30 ex Waterloo as net times: no one ever got a clear road on that train to beat the start to stop record. But I think it was Reubens Hendicott who got the 08.30 with 35005, again, through Basingstoke in 41.48 slowed by a signal check approaching the station. And yet again it was 35005, on the 17.30, with 12 car train that saw "Sootie" Saunders and Dave Wilson do one of the approx 41 mins 30 net time runs. Over 80 mph by Hampton Court Junction, then a sigs stop near Hersham. A superb restart to 75 mph at West Byfleet, slowly accelerating up the grade to 79 mph by Brookwood! Just under 3,000 ihp if my memory serves me rightly. I can still hear the noise from the front on that climb!
     
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  8. 6026 King John

    6026 King John Well-Known Member

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    How do you know which way round the stock will be? Last time I did a UK Railtours train out of Waterloo dining was at the back
     
  9. Sean Emmett

    Sean Emmett Member

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    I would have been chortling in my cot as you went past Brookwood!
     
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  10. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Oh for a sound recording.
     
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  11. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Part of the furniture Friend

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    There wasn't a 67 in sight at Exeter on 25th August 2014 when we ran via Honiton and Central to St Davids and went back after the stopover via the Berks and Hants. The train was serviced in Riverside Yard and reversed back into St Davids.
     
  12. hatherton hall

    hatherton hall Well-Known Member

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    Excuse me Sir. Let me make a suggestion and that is that "The record to a Basingstoke stop..............." should read, "the recorded record...........................". You can bet your bottom dollar that back in 1965/66/67, when we were all nicely tucked in our warm beds, that a Bullied pacific of one shape, size or another, will have beaten even this great time, racing through the middle of the night way out of sight of authority. Do remember that the SR had a maximum permitted speed of 80mph according to the WTT of that time.
     
  13. gricerdon

    gricerdon Guest

    Whilst you might be right, I suspect that very few fast runs over those last few years were missed by the gang of us who were 'in the know'. The runs which Yeti mentions were amongst the best in the down direction and 35005 on the 530 down with 12 on did indeed get close to the magic 3,000 IHP. With such a fast start (Surbiton passed in 14 mins 16 secs ), I think that if we hadn't been stopped we would have got to Basingstoke in under 40 minutes, but the signal stop and the incredible effort up past Brookwood took their toll and it wasn't to be. The overall speed limit then was 85 mph but this was purely nominal as far as the steam crews were concerned and even the Inspectors turned a blind eye.

    The full story of these and around 250 other runs from those last few years will be in my forthcoming book 'Southern Steam Twylight: The Untold Story 1965-67' to be published in July 2017 by Pen and Sword. The runs include no less than 16 fully authenticated instances of 100 mph being reached or exceeded.

    Don (Cecil J) Benn
     
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  14. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    :mad: ;)
     
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  15. gricerdon

    gricerdon Guest

    The problem is that the train is going to be 13 coaches and therefore has to use P19 at Waterloo which means a slow start across all tracks to gain the down line and therefore we cant use the intended fast line xx55 path. Its unlikely that there will be a DL on the back as that would be against the UKR/DBS and AI trust religion.
     
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  16. KentYeti

    KentYeti Guest

    The speed limit was 85 mph. And was for the observance of fools and the guidance of wise men! ;) Up to 90 mph was generally accepted. And it is very, very unlikely an un recorded run beat that time in the last years . The exceptionally fast runs started in the last year of the pre electrification works before June 1965. After that the works themselves made it impossible to get there really fast.

    As for being tucked up in bed. Oh no. We had a great relationship with the loco crews back then, (and today for those of them still with us), and we would turn up at any time of day or night if one of them indicated they were on one of the turns and would give a really fast run. Loco diagrams were sometimes changed by those who could do that to get them the best available loco!

    On 16th May 1965, Smithy, the traction "inspector" on the footplate, drove a number of us, including the loco crew, home in the early hours in his large American car. I shall never forget the surprise on my mum's face when she came down to the living room to see big brother Don, myself, the fireman Dave , "dropgrate" Wilson, and Smithy, sipping tea at around 05.30! Gordon Hooper, the driver, having been dropped off somewhere near Vauxhall? where I think he lived at the time. Those fast drivers wanted us to be on the trains to "authenticate" the times and speeds! And some of the best runs, and a lot of the footplate rides took place in the middle of the night. But fast runs non stop to Basingstoke were limited by the few trains that did that.

    Those really were the days, it was a different world back than. Big Brother Don's book on all of it is, I think, progressing well, and will cover a great deal of what happened.

    Of course it is always possible that someone beat that time pre the great speed era of circa 1964 -1965. But with so few trains booked non stop and crews not wanting to run ten to fifteen minutes early and able to be unchecked, it is still very unlikely. And as for any record, it has to have been recorded to count!

    Back to the present. Tornado won't have the chance to even beat the net time record to Basingstoke. Even though it is mainly uphill and/or level to Basingstoke, (very short downhill stretches through Weybridge, after MP 31 and down to Newham Siding after Hook being the more obvious ones), those 1960s crews could get a MN up to 90mph on the way. But I still think if Tornado is set up by her crew to perform as she can, Woking to Basingstoke could see some superb 21st century running over that wonderful stretch of SR railway. And the stretch up to MP 31 may well be the best place to hear her working very hard. Rounding the curve and then under bridge not far before MP 31 could be rather good. Assuming the steam speed restriction under the aqueduct before Sturt Lane doesn't apply to Tornado.
     
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  17. KentYeti

    KentYeti Guest

    And it's booked to cross to the SL at Surbiton and back to the FL at Woking Don.

    Are you are going to be on it?
     
  18. Paul42

    Paul42 Part of the furniture

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    Ticket received this morning. Sold out in standard and First class non-dining.
     
  19. gricerdon

    gricerdon Guest

    Yes of course we are. With no WCR and pure steam on this we couldn't miss it.
     
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  20. mrKnowwun

    mrKnowwun Part of the furniture

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    West Byfleet man is planning it. Last fast line runs out of Waterloo were pretty speedy Surbiton > BFN

    Edit. Just seen the slow line comment SUR > WOK. Looks like Brookwood is the place to be
     
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