Demographic timebomb?

Some of us don't expect to retire at 67! If I can have enough in the way of assets not to need to work at 75, I'll be pleased (if I'm still around, that is) However, I hope that, at whatever age I do finally retire, I won't be too decrepid. I can only volunteer very occasionally at the moment and would love to have more time to do so.

 

assets smassets....the biggest asset is enjoying life. There's a lot to be said for moving to a small house in a small country town with a steam railway on the doorstep.

 

In the picture attached, Im the oldest at 37! (In the greasetop) It is not uncommon for me to be the fireman and to be older than the driver and trainee by 10 years or more.

 

Its not just about retirement though. I'm in my mid 40's and whilst I would love to have over my weekends to a heritage line, whilst the kids are still at home I want to spend time with them rather than be off without them. Give it another 5 years and my eldest will be 16 and so reasonably useful to come with me, another 4 after than and both of them will likely be at Uni so my weekends become my own. Funnily enough that takes me to the 50+ age range that this article highlights as being the core age for volunteers.

Coincidentally I see in this quarter's GWS Echo that they are about to set up a young volunteers programme with the aim of giving kids a progressive experience on real projects so that by the time they are adults (in the eyes of the insurers) they are realistically able to choose their on going role. From what I can see they don't do so bad anyway - 4144 was largely overhauled by younger volunteers (with some experienced guidance) - its almost to the point that I feel wary of offering help as I'd be seen as an old codger!

 

Be less locos in BR Black in the future that's for sure - as people like to remember what they looked like when they were young. In the future people won't have this sentimentality and we'll see some brighter colours around.

As long as steam locomotives keep finding ways into popular culture (Thomas The Tank, Harry Potter etc..) things will be ok.

 

yeah, it will be fine, I see it polarising into the big venues with paid staff and the hobby-type site where voluteerism is to the fore.
There might be some contraction but that might not be a bad thing, there's a lot of scrap around frankly.

 

I think there will be a consolidation of some lines at some point. That is, some smaller lines are vulnerable and will be unable to continue to run.

Most of the big lines will be safe, some of the smaller ones not, but I think it inappropriate to speculate on which of the smaller guys will go under because that'd be inpolite.

 

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It is just as likely that big lines will be in trouble as small ones, i.e. organisations who have not learned to be thrifty, whatever their size, may well find problems.

PH

 

It'll come down to how good the governance is and it applies to both Large and Small. Though hopefully it won't have to come that...

 

It wont be down to the size of the railway, or how well ran or otherwise, it will be how you retain and attract enough volunteers that will be the deciding factor and how they can get to the railway, younger people dont have the money availible these days, and the costs involved in getting to the railway, if they were so minded to help may be a deciding factor, people as a whole are working longer also, so people will have less free time it dont matter how well run you are, if your volunteers find it to expensive to volunteer they wont come, they will find something else.

 

Not so sure - don't forget there are plenty of places owned by other local authorities, for example county councils. Lincoln Castle is an example. And then you have places like the Palace of Westminster... Finally, let's not discuss the status of properties belonging to the Church of England as an established church...

 

I wouldn't bank on either of those factors lasting, given the combination of increasing retirement ages and the decline of defined benefit pensions.

The truth is with those who highlight the need to retain interest from young members - even if they take a break due to family/career pressures, some will return. The challenge is in making the numbers add up, especially if you need to fill a shortfall and need more from fewer.

 

Are there any railways working with universities ?

Engineering university degrees often require good lab environments etc, but are often shy on practical applications when it comes to experience (but obviously good on educational aspects).

If a preserved line approached a university, there could be a win win here,.. A practical application and skills learning for students (a combo of in lab and onsite ) as well as a an oppourtunity for a preserved line to have some work done, needless to say they could gain a few longer term volunteers too.

 

The SVR apprentice scheme combines on the job training with college based learning.

 

I'm not sure of the precise frequency, but this or a similar discussion comes up on NP on a fairly regular basis. In this case it has been prompted by by a journalistic opinion, but it is prompted by a widespread view that the demographic make-up of the railway preservation community is somehow predictable, which simply isn't true.

I'm now in my 30th year of running a railway preservation set-up and have had a good opportunity to observe the reality of volunteers and volunteering, so for what they are worth, here are my conclusions:

First, the basic premise of the article, that railway preservation depends on retirees. Not so. On our railway we have always attracted volunteers of all age groups, but retirees starting as new volunteers have been a small minority. In fact, until the last two or three years, one of our problems seemed to be a lack of retired volunteers. I actually looked forward to the time when more of our volunteers reached retirement age, thinking that they would then have more time to spend on the railway. Wrong! I have found that retired people generally have no more spare time available then those in employment. However, one area where I agree, to a limited degree, with the author of the article is on the subject of skills- younger people tend not to have the skills of their seniors and are all to often unwilling/unable to learn them. Or conversely, those with the skills havn't the time or patience to teach them!

Everyone seems to assume that the future of the preservation movement depends on its ability to attract young volunteers. Of course that's true up to a point, but you should never assume that, because you have succeeded in attracting youngsters, all your troubles are over. To put it bluntly, young volunteers are fickle. They are more likely to be drawn away by the attractions of other interests, whether that be other volunteering opportunities, not necessarily on railways, romantic interests, further education or work. People say that they will eventually return, but I have seen little evidence of that; once they have gone you are unlikely to see them again, unless they turn up, years hence, as visitors with their own offspring. Meanwhile, your and your volunteer's efforts in training them are lost.

One thing that has changed over the past 20-odd years is the effect of work. I'm rather proud of the fact that a high proportion of our younger volunteers have graduated to full-time employment in the rail industry. In the past this had a positive spin-off for us, but now work patterns on the big railway (and elsewhere) make it very difficult for them to find time for volunteering. Another factor is university; this invariably means moving out of the area and then, on graduation, they find that work opportunities take them even further away or even abroad.

And now, the controversial bit. Obviously not all volunteers are the same. Some are very, very good but many others are, ahem, useless. I have long ago reached the conclusion that one of the first category is worth at least half a dozen of the second, so it's not just a numbers game. To illustrate this, I visited a railway on a non-opening day and was impressed by the number of volunteers present. Having spent a couple of hours on site, I concluded that less than 10% were actually doing anything productive, the rest were either watching them or talking and drinking tea.

There is one threat to volunteering that is very real and that is regulation. I meet many people who express an interest in volunteering, but increasingly they are concerned about the risks to themselves of doing safety critical work, being involved with young people etc. These would not have occurred to potential volunteers 30 years ago, but they are a serious disincentive now.

So how do we deal with these challenges? In everything we do, we ask ourselves " is this sustainable in terms of staffing?" It's called cutting your coat according to your cloth.

 

Agreed, the quality of volunteers can be quite varied. Sometimes you can't be as selective as you might be if more people were forthcoming.
Experience and Competency is another area. Does that person have 10 years experience or just one years experience done 10 times?

 

That is a valid point, i have known people who refused flat to train anyone and as a result the project they were responsible for made only very slow progress and there were a group of us at the time who could have helped, luckily not everyone had that approach, and because we were a group of keen youngsters, we turned up every week end, so very soon we were doing maintaince work with mimimum supervissor input, it helped that we did show that we could do the job, and we in turn, made sure any new starters, learnt what we knew, startng with organised cleaning gangs and as we became firemen, they became our trainees on the foootplate also, one of our group became project leader on the Restoration of Cheltenham
so if you take the time to train people if they have the aptitude it can pay off later, its i think a more pressing problem on all railway centres, even as recent as my last stint on the KESR, the training of people was a topic often in the mess room,with concern being shown as to who is qualified to train people on machines such as woodworking machines, in this case only people who could show they were trained previously on operating these machines were allowed yet, some were even then in my view based on what i saw, not safe to operate those machines, yet because they had a certificate they could, but at the same time, the department were reluctant to train anyone because of an fear of being blamed if something went wrong a true catch 22, dont feel you are qualified to train people,so you dont pass on your skills and prospective voluenteers will move on elsewhere, but at the same time you are talking machines that are very dangerious even for a good safe operator to use , anyone watched a spindle moulder in use

 

I think that you have summed up my views and experiences at Middleton quite well here. The early retired are able to attend mid-week and this has proved to be a boon as, with our small railway, there is a practical limit to how many volunteers can be accommodated on any one day and that saturation can be reached, especially with unskilled people. The one thing that I have noticed that you haven't commented on is the flow of new volunteers. Until about twelve months ago, this was fairly steady. On most weeks we were doing a safety induction for a new volunteer and about 1 in 6 of these would become what I class as a regular volunteer. (That is, I think about the average throughout the movement.) In recent months that flow of potential volunteers has almost dried up, though, and I do not know or understand the reason why. I hope that this is just a glitch and is not something being echoed elsewhere.

 

But volunteers are only one factor though. Consider in addition:

1. Demand for a day out by the Great British general public and how much they're prepared to pay for it (which is related to the economy in general)
2. The price of consumables, particularly coal.
3. The continued usage of life-expired equipment beyond its natural expiry date until it is no longer fit for purpose, and the ability to replace that. Some things are OK, the big railway will always have old rail it doesn't need, but boilers, coach bogies, etc. are a problem.

This could be a perfect storm waiting to happen. In which case I do predict the consolidation of the movement onto fewer railways.

 

We may not be a railway, but as a locomotive owning company we are now registered with a college as an approved work experience placement provider, our first student enjoyed his time so much he is returning for a second stint! Between ourselves and the 2874 Trust we are also in talks with local universities to see if there is anything we may be able to offer each other, nothing ventured nothing gained and all that...

Some interesting discussion surrounding young volunteers, I would like to think that the young volunteers we have feel they have actually contributed and had to think for themselves by the end of a days volunteering. I have seen it all to often where younger folk are pretty much stood over for the duration. Watching quietly from a distance is key where appropriate and observing the work at stages to ensure it is being done correctly not only means people learn more for themselves but also means they are more likely to feel that they have actually done it themselves; vital for confidence and a sense of worthwhile contribution to the cause. Volunteers are quite likely to find other things to do if they don't feel their free time given has been worthwhile.

Mike Solloway

DMLL