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Defra stance on coal burning. Have your say now ....

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Sheff, Jan 31, 2018.

  1. W.Williams

    W.Williams Well-Known Member

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    Well, that depends on who digs it. At the risk of dragging this topic west, community service and custodial sentencing really needs to do some real work to benefit society. Everyone would benefit.
     
  2. goldfish

    goldfish Nat Pres stalwart

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    I think that Gulags are more of an eastern thing…

    Simon
     
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  3. W.Williams

    W.Williams Well-Known Member

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    I appreciate its a bit off piste, but i really think doing work would be far better than rotting in a cell.
     
  4. Sheff

    Sheff Resident of Nat Pres

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    Personally I'm concerned as to what DEFRA's end game is here. Of course we can nit-pick the wording of their opening volley, and sit around with our fingers in our ears going 'la la la' or we can sit up, take notice and start thinking about the future. Your choice.
     
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  5. goldfish

    goldfish Nat Pres stalwart

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    It’s part of May and Gove’s ‘look at us we’re being green’ environmental sleight of hand. A big initiative trying to distract from Brexit, that stands no chance of getting anywhere because government’s tied up dealing with Brexit.

    Simon
     
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  6. sir gilbert claughton

    sir gilbert claughton Well-Known Member

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    if we plan to open a coal mine we are gonna have to decide if it should be large lump welsh or blisworth no1 .-----------------------------?
     
  7. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    What would Sir Humphrey do?
     
  8. sir gilbert claughton

    sir gilbert claughton Well-Known Member

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    are you sure that is wood smoke you can smell?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 2, 2018
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  9. DragonHandler

    DragonHandler Well-Known Member

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    I suspect he would do whatever was in the the Civil Service's, and his own, best interest. ;)
     
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  10. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    On the plus side then Brexit is providing months of fruitful work for hardworking civil servants (see sir Humphrey's argument against regional government!)
     
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  11. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    It would be great to plan on opening a coal mine but where would the £millions needed come from? Even for a small one.
     
  12. R.W. Grant

    R.W. Grant New Member

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    President Trump did the coal producing regions across the US a favor by reducing regulations. No, Coal combustion cannot be reduced to zero emissions, but the questionable cost effectiveness of windmills is far outweighed by a coal or natural gas fueled power station, which is unaffected by weather conditions. While China and other far east nations thumb their noses at the "Paris" accord and pollute, we have wisely left enough regulations in place to keep coal burning much cleaner than in past years. I use washed Pennsylvania Anthracite coal to heat my home in modern stoves. In the past few weeks my state has been above zero degrees F by day and below 0 degrees F over night. I live in Pennsylvania, a coal producing state. Anthracite coal is the most cost effective source of home heat by far, at least in the region I live. As far as steam locomotives over here, they might be considered a non-factor as so few are operating across the US. One more thing, I have read from vulcanologists reports that all that is needed to set back all of man's attempts to clear the air is one good sized eruption anywhere on the globe. Krackatoa near Java eruption in the late 1800's turned the sky over London red for months and there are paintings by a British artist to prove it. Best of luck in your dispute with the "powers that be".
     
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  13. Allegheny

    Allegheny Member

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    Given that mining these days is largely open-cast, I think it is more likely to be dug by a purpose designed piece of powered machinery rather than someone with a pick and shovel.
     
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  14. Allegheny

    Allegheny Member

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    I think the government is generally in favour of hetitage railways, given the economic boost they give to local areas. In my view, the main problem is that, as people who remember steam in "non heritage" use, grow older, it will eventually reach the point where there is no longer the critical mass of people to support the heritage scene as we know it. I suspect the government is prepared to tolerate pollution from burning a relatively small amount of coal until this point is reached.
     
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  15. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    The Government may well tolerate small amounts of coal burnt for heritage purposes, but the question is whether it will be available to burn? As I see it, we are at the whim of the market - if the industrial market for x million tons disappears, no one will be mining the x thousands of tons needed for heritage use.

    On your wider point - if we avoid that bullet, I don’t see inherently why heritage railways should disappear just because those old enough to remember stewm railways die off. Not too many people still remember knights in shining armour, but mediaeval castles remain popular tourist attractions - even if sanitised beyond what any mediaeval time traveller would recognise. So I tend to take a more benign view than that we only continue to exist based on people’s memories.

    Tom
     
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  16. simon

    simon Resident of Nat Pres

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    You are right in that heritage railways take an insignificant fraction of 1% of industrial usage in the UK. The figures are in the report I linked to above.

    As to the future of steam given it is 50 years since the end of BR steam this summer then I think a quick look around any heritage railway will show that the majority of visitors will only have vague memories if any of BR steam and yet they still come.
     
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  17. Allegheny

    Allegheny Member

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    I didn't intend to mean that they would disappear altogether. The baby boom generation is currently hitting retirement age, and I think this is helping the steam scene at the moment, but in the long term (decades), I suspect it will decline to the level of knights in shining armour and sailing ships.

    Regarding the supply of coal, I would think while ever there is some demand there will be someone with an excavator willing to operate a small scale open cast operation to service the market.
     
  18. Seagull

    Seagull Member

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    As a coal buyer on a heritage railway I would suggest that we take this threat very seriously. It is important that heritage railways are very much on the radar of government when proposals like this appear. Whilst on the face of it there will be no ban, at least just yet, with encouragement from government to reduce household coal burning we can be sure that availability of suitable coal supplies will also become scarcer and more expensive. There is very little suitable coal available as it is. If supplies are not readily available at a price we can afford, many railways will struggle to survive.
     
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  19. threelinkdave

    threelinkdave Well-Known Member

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    You cant just send someone down a mine. Safety training is essential. 6 weeks on haulage and materials to ensure you are not going to kill yourself. This is followed by 8 weeks of face training again so you dont kill yourself. Coal cutting is not by pick and shovel but by machine, most commonly a schearer with a big drum with pics on. If you accept mine machinery is out to kill you you should be ok. Each man looks out for the other.

    Do I really want some disgruntled scroat working down the pit because thats where a judge sent him.

    And yes I have worked down pit - Assistant to the Electrical Engineer - Chatterly Whitfield Colliery - NStaffs
     
  20. Wenlock

    Wenlock Well-Known Member Friend

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    Well it doesn't smell like coal, and it's nothing like the 'herbal' scent which lingers in a few spots. Smells more like bonfires than barbecues.
     

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