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Dalesman and Pendle Dalesman 2021

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by iancawthorne, Dec 2, 2020.

  1. iancawthorne

    iancawthorne Part of the furniture

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    So, fifteen days since mainline steam returned to England and we've seen nine charters over the Settle Carlisle using seven different loco's, including one debut to the line and another that will likely go into the climb to Ais Gill record books in some form. I'd call that being spoilt rotten. :):)
     
  2. Mick45305

    Mick45305 Member

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    Yes that is some feat. The stage has been set. :)
     
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  3. Oswald T Wistle

    Oswald T Wistle Part of the furniture Friend

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    Leander's wheels were certainly turning apace on the return (@Nige77's video) and good to see that David Blair was at the helm. Shep reports that Martyn Soames was firing northbound; shame to have missed him at Hellifield (brew time?) - always a pleasure to speak with him. Aside from not travelling (for now) I do miss not being able to chat with the crews (frustrated driver that I am). Won't be able to see Thursday's Dalesman as we have a couple of deliveries due, now if they both arrive early . . .
     
  4. RalphW

    RalphW Part of the furniture Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    Ah, so that was you standing on your lonesome above Helwith, Billy no Mates I thought, so did wave. Regarding Leander's wheels twirling, the few at Scout Green would have witnessed them as we hurried past with the speed in the mid 70's, must have been a magnificent sight.

    OK, question, when was the last time steam ran none stop Carlisle to Carnforth, southbound? From RTT the time to Carnforth south junc. was 77 mimutes, I'm sure had Chris known from the start that we were not going to be looped anywhere several minutes could have been knocked off as the pace to Plumpton was quite restrained and there was a noticeable slackening of pace on the approach until the signal showed the clear path. There was also a fairly long application of the brakes as we approached Oxenholme as if we were going to be looped there.
     
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  5. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Nearly an hour and three quarters sat at Carnforth, bet that went down a storm with the non diners!
     
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  6. RalphW

    RalphW Part of the furniture Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    Swings and roundabouts really as we could have been stopped in various loops instead. When explained that we would still be getting to the respective drop off stations at the correct time they were mostly understanding. fortunately, there was a decent breeze so with most windows open the train did not get uncomfortably hot.
     
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  7. ribble

    ribble Well-Known Member

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    45690 Leander on the WCML just south of Plumpton with the Dalesman of 1/6/2021.
    We thought this would be the best location for exhaust as it restarted from the loop but as reported already it didn't take the stop

    David Price
    Cop Lane on Flickr 15D_0409 copy.jpg
     
  8. 30567

    30567 Part of the furniture Friend

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    A long time ago I reckon. All the obvious 'recent' possibilities like the Border Raider, Cumbrian Mountaineer, Scot Commemorative had a stop. 70000 plus a POB was scheduled to do it non-stop in 74 mins on a Sunday morning 19/5/19 after hauling the Lakelander the previous day, but I don't know if it did and perhaps LE doesn't count.

    Re the slowing before Oxenholme, you were running five mins behind the 1627 from Windermere to Mcr Airport. How long are the block sections there? If it is Milnthorpe, that could account for it.
     
  9. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Yes, non sop southbound is unusual. I don't know the last time without looking it up but Leander on a West Highlander back in 2009 was lively with Albert Seymour. 75 min into the Loop with a slow approach.

    Perhaps of more interest is the southbound Border Raider in 2014 with Tornado and 11 up. Non stop to Oxenholme Loop in 56 min with 55 over Shap in only 36 minutes. And then 18 min to Carnforth Loop = 73 minutes overall running time. Without the stop and assuming only 70 from Hay Fell to Burton and Holme it would have been in the region of 65 minutes.
     
  10. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Happy be to corrected, but I don't recall 5043 having a stop in June 2009, albeit I cannot find any record online to confirm either way.
     
  11. 30567

    30567 Part of the furniture Friend

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    Some speed graphs from you Ralph suggest non-stop. See thread The Cumbrian Conqueror.
     
  12. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Resident of Nat Pres

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    I didn't mean that one, I meant her solo effort in 2009 which I was on.

    Incidentally from a post in that thread you pointed me at (thanks) it suggests that I watched the train through Lancaster, I have absolutely no recollection of that at all!
     
  13. RalphW

    RalphW Part of the furniture Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    Ah that explains it, I was busy looking behind us and something in front from Windermere had not occurred to me.
     
  14. 30567

    30567 Part of the furniture Friend

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    Another one from that era is Scot Over Shap 9/5/09. 46115 was very fast to Shap and looks possibly non-stop. There is a thread...... Ralph got a soaking at the lineside that day.

    And 46233 did it in 66 mins on 2/10/10.... The Royal Scot.

    And there is the Caledonian Tornado 21/9/11, but I haven't seen any actual timings for that. Late evening run, so probably non-stop.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2021
  15. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Well-Known Member Friend

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    On 9/5/09 Scot with 11 up was doing 56 at mp38 1/4; got there in 36m 22s; non-stop to Carnforth UDGL, arrived in 75m 43.26s.

    On 20/6/09, 5043 with 10 up was doing 57 at the same point in 34m 56.48s; almost non-stop to Carnforth UDGL but we were early and were held at a signal just before we would have gone under the line to Hellifield for 10 1/2 mins. We'd got there in just on 68 mins.
     
  16. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Ah thank you, now you mention it I recall the check outside Carnforth!
     
  17. Bill2

    Bill2 New Member

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    Tuesday's Dalesman is well worth a report, rather late due to problems with the internet; the first train I have been on since last September. Waiting at Preston I was concerned as the screens showed it getting later and later, and the platform staff then came round and said the train in front had failed and the charter would go directly to Blackburn and we should go up there on the local to catch it. This went OK but with a lengthy wait at Blackburn where departure was half an hour down. It was most encouraging to find Leander waiting at Hellifield in really sparkling condition and showing just how smart black livery can be; the support coach also looked fresh from the paint shop. And a day of perfect weather to match.

    A bit of time was saved on the loco change and departure was 20 late, now with load 11 for 403 tons tare/ around 425 gross probably as full as possible allowing for social distancing, though there was little prospect of making up much time due to the number of slacks on the S&C. Speeds were 58 mph at Settle Junction, 44½ at Settle and with 28 minimum at Helwith Bridge. After accelerating to 35½ on the easier stretch from there Leander was eased for the first slack at Horton, for which we actually came down to 16½ mph, an awkward location at the bottom of the second long stretch at 1 in 100 where a slow but sure acceleration gained 31½ mph at Ribblehead. We eased to 28½ over the viaduct and continued at around the same speed to Blea Moor tunnel with a strong acceleration through the tunnel to 55 mph before slowing for the Dent restriction. A maximum of 52 before Garsdale was followed by another slack at the Moorcock, and Ais Gill was passed at 44 mph before a further slack at Mallerstang. There was another check at Kirkby Thore with a very brief splash and dash at Langwathby before the final tsr for a bank slip near Cumwhinton and Carlisle was reached half an hour late.

    Leander was back on the stock a few minutes late but other traffic delayed the shunt from the siding to platform 3 and departure was ten minutes down. I had noticed the screens at Carlisle showing several southbound main line trains as delayed, but hadn't realised that nothing was actually running due to overhead line problems north of Lockerbie and we would have Shap to ourselves. Presumably the crew knew this and certainly capitalised on the opportunity; I was now at the back of the train but Leander seemed to be making more noise than the northbound run when I was at the front. We accelerated to 34 mph on the initial 1-in -132 to Wreay and steadily through the 40's and 50;s to pass Penrith at 58½ mph in 26m 50s with a subsequent maximum of exactly 60 at Eamont. The long 1-in-125 saw speed slowly decline to 49½ at Eden Valley, 46 at Clifton, 40½ at Thrimby Grange with a minimum 38 before Harrison's Sidings and a solid 46 mph on the easier section past Shap station. Final minimum was 41½ mph near post 38½ and the summit sign was passed at 47½ mph in 44m 55s from Carlisle (remember I was at the back of the train). The descent was taken quite easily with maximum
    75mph only touched once, briefly, and arrival at Carnforth loop was in 78m 28s; 58 minutes early! How about that! The only disappointment was that the diesels to take us on weren't ready, and even when attached to the train we didn't actually depart until almost the scheduled time, with a punctual run on to Preston where I left.

    Many thanks to West Coast and crews for running the train.
     
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  18. 30567

    30567 Part of the furniture Friend

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    Thanks for the report. One comment. More than one thing went wrong north of Carlisle ; the TPE from Edinburgh had sat down before Carstairs causing the following VT to be cancelled. But at the time the Dalesman left Carlisle, the Glasgow-Euston train was still on time. It subsequently lost 36mins at Lockerbie. So the Dalesman crew will have left Carlisle expecting to stop at Plumpton to be passed at 1558. After that, Mr Blair certainly took full advantage!
     
  19. JohnRobinson

    JohnRobinson Well-Known Member

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    03/06/2021 -SR 4-6-2 Merchant Navy Class 35018 "British India Line" running through Long Preston station on a running of "The Dalesman" from York to Carlisle (Steam from Hellifield)



    DSC_10894.jpg
     
  20. sgthompson

    sgthompson Part of the furniture

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    35018 Storming through Waitby Rock Cutting.

     

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