Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by iancawthorne, Oct 13, 2019.
35018 at a very dull Blea Moor and Bessy Ghyll on the return .
35018 seen passing Arcow Quarry in the Haze and trundling through Bessy Ghyll.
With a splash of sunshine, 'British India Line' works the northbound 'Dalesman' through Ribblehead to Carlisle with Mick Kelly driving, Chris Holmes firing
and Roly Parker Guard
No. 35018 'British India Line' working the return 'Dalesman' through Beckfoot with Mick Kelly driving, Peter James firing and Roly Parker Guard
Whilst the trials with Launceston Castle persuaded the LMS hierarchy that a non-compound 4-6-0 was the way forward, the design of the Royal Scot owed very little to the Castle. Many years later, when the Scots were re-built they remained a very long way from what had made Castles such a revered part of GWR history. In the 1950s several locomotive classes visited Rugby Test Station, amongst them were Jubilees, Castles and Rebuilt Scots. The locomotives did not receive the full series of tests as befitted the new BR Standard classes, but the steaming rate (sustainable for 1 hour) was determined.
Jubilee (with double or modified chimney) – 25,000lbs/hr
Castle (with double or modified chimney) – 26,000lbs/hr
Rebuilt Royal Scot (standard double chimney) – 30,000lbs/hr
(A suggested re-proportioned double chimney could increase the rate for the Royal Scot by 5%)
This was “at the Test Station” where the locos were provided with Blidworth coal, a long way from the high calorific “Welsh Steam Coal” on which the Castles thrived (and the figures reflect this. Using the best coal [instead of Blidworth] the maximum steaming rate of a King class increased by 20%). Out on the road all the classes could produce significantly higher steaming rates (than those obtained at Rugby) and without sacrificing steam pressure or water level.
On the road, if all were fed with similar coal, there is no reason why the steaming rate of any one class of engine should improve in comparison to the others. Similarly, no one class of engine has any significant advantage (valves and cylinders) in converting its maximum steaming rate into useful horsepower. So, on the road, usable power can be expected to bear a similar relationship to the steaming rates obtained at Rugby. A published analysis of some of the best runs by each of the classes in BR days broadly supports the relative power outputs i.e. the Castle (albeit double chimney and high superheat) remained some way behind the Scot.
However, a similar analysis of some of the best runs by preserved locomotives shows the Castle closely approaching but not quite reaching the output of the Scots. Given the best coal, expert firing and the opportunity a Castle is a fine machine, but then so is a Scot.
At the end of the day, as Professor Tuplin stated, it all comes down to the skill and stamina of the fireman and the design of the loco.
35018 passing Lancliffe
The times are now on RTT for the Pendle Dalesman on Thursday 29th October https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U52091/2020-10-29/detailed
Starts from Chesterfield, Sheffield..... Here's hoping for a viable train !!!
Although it's been nearly 2 months since the very sad passing of fireman Mike Middleton at Garsdale, I nevertheless wanted to post a few words (better late than never). It was a very empty feeling at the lineside that day, and chilling to hear the news afterwards.
I wanted to find out which recent runs Mr. Middleton had been responsible for, and am indebted to both the forum, and users Oswald T Wistle, Shep Woolley and others for making the effort to record such details at the time. A few conjured up some very memorable occasions - 45562 Alberta working over the S&C this February and double heading over Shap with 46115 last November. But perhaps the one that stuck out the most for me was 35018 over Shap on December 1st last year. On a beautiful, freezing morning, not only did she have ample steam to dismiss the famous gradient with no less than 13 and a very quiet 47 in tow, but in doing so laid a steam trail all the way from Shap Summit to the Lune Gorge. Perhaps a nice way of remembering what Mr. Middleton produced in getting the train to the top, and which gave such joy to anyone who was out to see or record the train that day. Rest in peace, sir.
A 'like ' is not sufficient response to this, hear, hear, is getting there but very well said, David, you have expressed my thoughts perfectly.
See the above timings don’t work now but this one does https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U91036/2020-10-29/detailed
Interesting, is this because of local restrictions or is it platform capacity at carlisle?
Or maybe influx of none essential journey passengers not wanted at Carlisle?
Or maybe there are issues with reversing at Blackburn at 1730?
I must say that is a very good southbound path over Shap. Not often you see that.
Indeed, hadn't noticed that, non stop could be interesting with the right motive power.
Just thinking about it some more though, will they take both diesels off at Hellifield? Looking at RTT the le moves have not yet caught up with the change of plan at Carlisle.
I would imagine that both would be taken off if the steam heat can be relied on..
Let's park the 'no access to Carlisle' point. My guess is that this is an operational or Network Rail matter.
Suppose that you have booked on this trip from Sheffield. This has now turned into a thirteen and a half hour day imprisoned on a train with all the extended stops in loops, at a time of face masks on transport and a nervousness by some about proximity arrangements, even on a charter where West Coast has doubtless undertaken all the necessary safeguards, and more.
One to miss, definitely. I would have thought.
A case of 'the journey being more important than the destination', though fully understand the need to get off the train!!
Steam over the Settle Carlisle and Shap anytime has to be good news in my book anytime !!!!
Would I be right in assuming the Pendle Dalesman on Thursday 29th October 2020 is not running? There are no times shown other than ECS runs to/from Chesterfield although West Coast are still showing it on their website.
EDIT I've probably answered my own question by looking at the Dalesman thread rather than Pendle Dalesman. Anyone know which loco is booked?
With the punters not able to get off the train for a break at Carlisle, wouldn't it have been better to schedule a later start and go directly from Sheffield to Hellifield via Engine Shed Junction and Skipton, avoiding the reversal at Blackburn?
Blackburn is a pick up.
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