Dalesman 2017 from York or Chester to Carlisle

Looking at RTT she seems to have lost a couple of minutes between Tebay and Penrith so possibly a struggle over Shap?

 

Lucky they didn't get sidelined at Grayrigg as RalphW was anticipating! Just made it to Penrith without delaying the Glasgow.

Lucky they've got an 8P in the sheds in case 46115 needs a bit of TLC one week!

 

It was indeed 13 Al and she was pulling hard .

 

Final fling before shopping perhaps?
If load 13 is to be usual some urgency in the 8P being made ready for the next Shap turn, 8F on the Hellifield returners?

 

LMS 7P Class 4-6-0 No. 46115 'Scots Guardsman' powers away from Tebay on the climb to Greenholme and beyond with today's 'Dalesman' rail tour



Racing through Smardale on the approach to Kirkby Stephen, LMS 7P Class 4-6-0 No. 46115 'Scots Guardsman' working the return leg of 'The Dalesman'

 

The Dalesman (Western Route) 30 May 2017 – 46115 Scots Guardsman hauling 12+POB

This is a new offering from WCRC, originating in Chester with steam from Carnforth over Shap to Carlisle, returning via the S&C to Hellifield with diesel haulage back through Blackburn and Farington Junction to the WCML. I joined the train at Leyland only 12 miles from home and with 24 hours parking for £1 (Preston £12 midweek). I have watched steam at Leyland on many occasions but this was the first time that I have joined or left a train here. It was a popular choice, around 60 boarded. Down sides are shortish platforms and no station facilities.

The train had been delayed leaving Chester and arrived behind a pair of 37s 12L. We made our final pickup at Preston and by the time we stopped in Carnforth loop we were 15L. The 37s were quickly detached and 46115 and support coach attached, bringing the train up to a whopping 13 coaches which included 2 Pullmans (and NO DIESEL). I understand that this rake of coaches will be used throughout the season on both the Western and Eastern Dalesmans. The train was full, a very good load for an ageing class 7 – would we make it? As always we had to wait to find out; the Manchester Airport – Edinburgh was running late and we departed 8L. Mick Kelly soon had SG working hard and even 10 coaches back the exhaust was clearly audible. We cleared Yealand at 34 and speed climbed to 64 before Milnthorpe, but fell back as we started the climb to Grayrigg; Milnthorpe was passed at 61 (9L), Oxenholme 50 (8L), still SG pressed on and we passed the summit at 36 a little over 8L – so far so good.

Now to try to get some speed through the Lune Gorge, we reached a maximum of 69 before Tebay, this fell back to 64 as we dipped under the M6, there was a real cacophony of sound from the front as SG grappled with the heavy load on the 1/75. Under the road bridge at Greenholm at 53, still 39 at Scout Green and then speed began to drain away until we passed the summit with a minimum of 21. MP26 to MB37¼ had taken 14m 23s (just over a minute longer than the CME of 13 May; the effects of the heavier load). We were up to 64 passing Shap and reached a max of 77 near Gt Strickland. We were due a pathing stop at Penrith and began slowing around Clifton and switched to the down slow at Penrith S Jn crawling to a stop in platform 3 at Penrith (9L). We stopped around the same time as the northbound Pendolino (in platform 2); he was 4L but had been 4L at Lancaster and we had a long slow trundle along the down slow so probably had minimal effect on him (we hope). We were off again (4L) and with a foray into the mid to high 70s arrived in Carlisle pl 3 (4L) for a 3½ hour break.

I wasn’t enthused by the prospect of killing 3½ hours in Carlisle so came up with a cunning plan. I purchased an off peak return to Dumfries (£4.05 with my “gimmers” card) and boarded the 13.12 intending to have an hour exploring Dumfries and return on the 14.57 (arr Carlisle 15.34, so still with an hour to spare before SG’s departure). Ah well, as I arrived in Dumfries the wind picked up and it came on raining so I cut my losses and returned on the 13.57 to Carlisle, where it was also now raining – so off the Woodrow Wilson for a late lunch. When I arrived back at the station SG and its support, now facing south, were waiting on B goods line (between pl 3 & 4). The stock was visible in a siding down towards London Rd Jn. SG moved off and coupled to the stock. After a long wait for traffic to clear, running tender first and propelling its support coach SG drew the train into pl 3, detached, ran round and attached to the south end – job done!

David Blair had us away RT, I was now in the fourth coach and with the window open SG could be heard growling away like a good un. Two miles out we were up to 29, then on the 1/132r past Cumwhinton speed built to 34, following a short level stretch we were up to 43 at Howe & Co (1E). Low House 46 (1E), Armathwaite 54 (1E), some fast downhill and Lazonby 56 (4E), Langwathby 48 (3E), Culgaith 52 (4E), Kirkby Thore 56 (5E), Long Marton 58 (6E) and 6½E to stop in Appleby. Carlisle to Appleby 43m 44s (this is identical to the CME of 13 May but this time with a longer, heavier train).

We were away again 5E. Taking advantage of the falling gradient we crossed Ormside Viaduct at 53 and squeezed up to 54 before the 1/100r began to bite. SG was up for the fight, we entered Helm Tunnel at 45 still 5E. Despite a slight easing of the gradient past Crosby Garrett speed fell to 43 (4E) and was down to 36 by Kirkby Stephen but 5E, we entered Birkett Tunnel at 33 and on the easier gradient along Mallerstang (1/330r) rallied to a shade over 40 (5E). The last 3 miles are down to sustained grunt and SG dragged the load up the hill with a minimum of 32 under the road bridge; this rose to 36 at the summit board (5E). Appleby to the summit board had taken 29m 16s against an allowance of 29m. (This was 37s faster than the CME; a worthy effort with the load).

As is sometimes necessary, this time there was no fast running along the top and down the other side, for none was needed. We continued to run 5/6/7E; this increased to 10 by Settle Jn and we stopped in Hellifield UGL (7E). There was a quarry train in the platform line which limited the view. After a westbound service train left, SG ran round its support coach and with much smiling and waving departed tender first for Carnforth. Now with the 37s back at the front we left 4E. We were held at Horrocksford Jn, at Daisyfield Jn and at Farington Jn as, running early, we threaded our way through various service train paths. Back in Leyland 6E and home 20 minutes later.

I was honoured to be in coach J under the stewardship of Ralph, although he did seem to have some temporary responsibilities in coach A on the ascent of Shap!!! SG continues to perform and muscled a heavy load over the northern hills. A class 7 or 8 is going to be required if The Dalesman is going to run with 13 coaches as is planned. I heard that the 8F is to be used on the ones out of York and that SG may have been given a short extension to its current certificate – we will find out in due course. Thanks to all involved for another professionally run and enjoyable trip and one that gives very good value for money.

There was some grumbling from fellow passengers about the hour long stop at Hellifield; this may not be possible to resolve, but if the train could use the platform line and passengers could stretch their legs . . .

I understand that some people may never have travelled to Carlisle and appreciate the 3½ hour stopover; I have been to Carlisle before and 1 – 2 hours is fine by me, but I can live with it and the bright lights and honky tonks of Dumfries still beckon me – with Mrs W’s permission (or possibly without it, if I’m feeling brave or reckless), I could try another trip.

 

Lovely stuff, sounds like you had a fine old day although 3.5 hours in Carlisle does sound like a killer! Lovely to read some positive stuff from someone on one of the trains rather than the normal complaining from those who were not!

Looking forward to the next chapter of your adventures.

 

Thanks for that. 500 tons over Shap with class 7. Fantastic!

I am tempted to book on one of these and hope that 46115 stays the course as I cant think that a 50 mph loco would be OK on the WCML, though fine on the S&C with its 60 limit. Bit of a risk though as I can only do the Chester one outbound and even that involves a long drive to MK.

 

The 8f has been over Shap Northbound, when the Scot failed a FTR, on a CCE ( one of my 4 failed attempts to travel behind it over Shap, got 45699 on the other 3) but we were looped at Penrith.

 

Email from WCRC tonight saying both Chester and York trips are to run BOTH ways over S&C (along with a picture claiming to be at Beasdale Tunnel on the S&C - someone in the media department needs some Geography lessons!)

A shame really as the Chester option was a variation. Doesn't explain why, maybe couldn't be sure a 75mph capable class 7 or 8 would always be available?

Note none of Details for pick up times and route for Chester trips are not updated on their site yet so a bit confusing to email people one thing that doesn't match the site they're linking to!

Quote from email

"The wait is over, The Dalesman service running on the World Famous Settle to Carlisle Line has now started. We are delighted to announce that both the Dalesman routes starting from either Chester or York will now run on the Settle to Carlisle Line on both the outward and return journeys. This promises to be a very special year for The Dalesman on it’s return after last years line closure. "

 

8F it is then.

 

One from yesterday at Howe & Co's siding...


https://www.flickr.com/photos/iancawthorne/34630100870/

 

Timeless.

 

First up, apologies to whom this may offend.
Bookings successfully procured on one basis, WCML, unilaterally changed to out & back S&C. It is not a terrible alternative but fundamentally different than the original concept.

 

Let's see if it definitely happens no change on the website etc!

 

And Mr Wistle's requirement of 2 hours max in Carlisle is likely to be achieved! Most of the extra time on the move will come out of the destination stop.

But if the 8F goes tech.......

And then there are the Fellsmans. Will 50mph on the Lancaster to Preston section be acceptable?

 

Hasn't Statesman Rail been sold to the Hoskings Group? Therefore 48151 is unlikely to appear on these isn't it as surely it will be one of the Hoskings loco fleet on these trains?