Current and Proposed New-Builds

Sorry, l thought that was pretty obvious?

 

Now try saying that in front of the A1SLT.

 

I have already posted along those exact lines! I repeat ,Tornado is a magnificent replica, what's not to like ?

 

The issue is the word "replica". The A1SLT does not class 60163 as a replica, it being different in many ways to its predecessors.

 

That's very true, but the GWR no longer exists. 6880 could have been built using GWR designs and construction methods without destroying a loco with its own history.
Maybe this comes from living on an island that has less than 40 steam locos in total preserved (thats all gauges and types), to destroy an historic loco to create a new build is not something that would be considered.

 

6880 probably could not have been built using all new parts, because the funding for all those parts would have been very hard to find. And the locomotives that the re-used parts came from had already waited a very long time for anyone to express interest in restoring them. Better to re-use those parts than leave them to rust for more decades.
The situation in Ireland is indeed very different. However won't the new Mogul have a few re-used bits from a Jeep?

 

Would you prefer ' Looky Likey ', l certainly would not. Its a very wòrthy project which l invested a considerable sum in ! It is a replica but not an exact copy and so is like many aeronautical replicas. Talking of which the Bristol Boxkite hanging prominently in the Museum here is a similarly magnificent replica . It was built in the 60s but not many people are aware of that. It would certainly be wrong to suggest Tornado is an original.

 

You've actually defeated your own argument by saying that it was just down to finance and there was no practical/engineering reason why 6880 couldn't have been built from scratch. As an appeal to build all new was never launched I don't think you can conjecture that it would have failed.
Locos can and do wait for many many years for their 'day of redemption' - why must we put a 'restore by' date on a loco before removing it from the possibility of a working (or even static display) future?
Regarding the mogul project, yes it will use the drivers from a jeep (54 iirc), but that loco was scrapped in the 70s, so it's not destroying a loco to create a new one.

 

Not really no. All the Granges were built with extensive use of parts from locomotives withdrawn specifically to act as parts donors (also all the GWR built Manors, the Dukedog and all the 72xx).

 

So you're saying that no-one could manufacture the relevant parts to the Grange/donor design? So how have boilers, cylinders, frames etc been made from scratch for other locos? How did the A1 Trust build Tornado? Indeed how did the 6880 group build their missing parts?
Obviously it's easier/cheaper to take an existing part from an existing loco rather than have to draw it, produce it and machine it but that doesn't mean it can't be done.

 

On the contrary, MellishR makes a very valid point. Finance is not easy to come by within a practical timescale. It never was and is getting almost impossible now with the scarcity of disposable income, reduction in volunteers to keep the over all costs down , rampant materials inflation , difficulties in sourcing coal and other uncertainties in the near future. The era of new new builds is rapidly drawing to a close. Just enjoy what we have and dig deep !

 

Slowly and consistently.

 

@hyboy see below

Exactly. No reason 6880 couldn't have used the the same method.

 

Tornado also had some snazzy marketing that appealed to those that remember the class and had money to burn. That was still an unproven model at the time and frankly will always be unique a generation and a bit down the line from the first components being manufactured. I have no issue with Betton Grange using various parts from other locos if they're the right parts unlike a certain obscure freight locomotive.

 

Whilst I fully support the sentiment behind your viewpoint, I would think the “landscape” has changed quite a bit since the thought bubble of re-birthing the Grange class first came about. I also suspect the kit of parts laying around to build an A1 was somewhat on the skinny side - new thinking was required and, hey presto, new realms of what is possible where opened up. New-build Tornado changed the landscape and also the position of many people’s goalposts.

But still, what to do with all these unloved, convenient GWR standardised parts to trip over…

 

I said that 6880 probably could not have been built using all new parts for reasons of funding. It would have been perfectly possible so far as the engineering goes. Indeed, with the facilities and experience now existing, a new build of almost any extinct class of British locomotives that you care to name would be perfectly feasible so far as the engineering goes, though it would be much easier or harder according to the availability or otherwise of drawings. I for one would love to see a Claughton. But dozens of new builds are not happening, and most of those that are happening are only happening slowly.

I acknowledge that there was no appeal for an entirely new build Grange, but if such an appeal had been made there would have been a chorus of voices telling the proposers to save time, money and effort by re-using a lot of parts that were going begging, just as the GWR had done originally.

 

Anyone think that once the new builds which are currently in progress are either completed or abandoned there won't be any more?

 

That is a good question, but hard to answer. Anyway I think it will be many years before all the present projects have been either completed or definitely abandoned. Some may drag on at a snail's pace. It seems likely that some new ones will be proposed, but they may never get off the ground.

 

There will always be something but not in the numbers we currently have. The ones that only existed as Facebook groups were always doomed and we've seen at least one wrap it up. I'd wager another couple will effectively go into stasis, theres at least one I can find no evidence of movement in recent years. There is a question of what do you do with the parts you have when the project grinds to a halt.

 

Not none, but few. The major lines are concentrating on infrastructure and protecting what they have (or selling it to Japan).