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Current and Proposed New-Builds

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by aron33, Aug 15, 2017.

  1. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Might I be permitted to throw a spanner in the evolving consensus and point to Mr. Riddles' quite superb 76xxx "Pocket Roacket" as jolly useful for secondary tertiary mainline use? :Pompus:
     
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  2. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Taken from the DRC Facebook page , no photographer credited unfortunately.

    [​IMG]
     
  3. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Surely a major driver for several of the GWR new/rebuilds was the existence of the "Barry Ten", which were left behind after buyers had been found to take everything else, whether for active restoration, stripping for parts, or dumping in a siding to await better times. For a long while no-one knew quite what to do with those last ten, then plans emerged, including the "Three Counties" project(s) with, in particular, a new County of Glamorgan to honour the Vale of Glamorgan Council that had taken them on. Full restoration would have been fine but it wasn't happening. Recycling a lot of their parts into new locomotives seems a lot better than scrapping, though some of the details have been poorly thought out.

    A Grange has a bigger boiler than a Manor. That may not make much difference on heritage railways but it will be significant if the Grange is able to run on any main line routes. I think I've also read somewhere on here that the Granges had larger steam chests than previous GWR classes, improving their efficiency. Did that apply to the Manors too?

    Looking for a reminder about the Barry Ten I was surprised to read at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Ten that the frames and wheels from 7927 are being used for the County. Are the Hall's wheels getting extra thick tyres or is that statement a mistake?

    Edit: delete an extraneous "if".
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2022
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  4. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    Not a mistake - deliberate:

    upload_2022-9-26_15-26-33.png

    https://www.county1014.org/post/smokebox-and-wheels

    So there's two ways of looking at it. Does 3in on the diameter make any reasonable difference? Or, is this in fact a Hall, with a bigger boiler?

    Answers on a postcard, I have never been able to reconcile in my head whether I can see the 3in difference in wheel diameter (but my god would I have been more than a bit annoyed of Tornado had had 6ft 5in diameter wheels!)
     
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  5. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    That info merely confirms that the County is getting 6'3" wheels, which (unlike the boiler) are correct. It doesn't answer my question whether those are the Modified Hall's wheels with thicker tyres.
     
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  6. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    My apologies, I clearly misread it all those years ago. You are quite correct in what you say.
     
  7. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Nat Pres stalwart

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    A trawl of the project website would suggest new wheels, albeit I can't find any details of them being cast or put together so who knows, much as with the 47 these projects seem to change by the hour.

    Likewise if new ones have been cast, then where are those from Willington Hall gone?
     
  8. Mr Valentine

    Mr Valentine Member

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    They are new wheels, I seem to remember they cost around £150k. The last time I saw Willington's old set, they were in centre sidings (round the back of the coal stage).

    The Hall wheels are 4% smaller than County wheels, and when County wheels are on minimum size tyres, the difference is negligible. By using the 8f boiler, the finished engine will have a working pressure 10% lower than the Counties' BR spec, and 20% lower than the GWR spec. I can't help feeling that they should've just used the Hall wheels, and either put the money saved towards building a new boiler, or just used the Hall boiler and disguised it with cladding. In either case, they could've always made new wheels at a later date (with the caveat that I'm not sure how much alteration the brake gear needs, not that this is a show-stopper).

    With a project like this, you can either build it authentically, and accept it'll cost a lot of money, or build it to a budget, and accept there'll be compromises. Didcot have managed to both spend a huge amount of money, and end up with something which is inherently compromised. The lack of a coherent plan is also very evident with the 47xx.
     
  9. marshall5

    marshall5 Well-Known Member

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    What's more, if they had used the Hall wheels they wouldn't have had to modify the superstructure to suit the current NR loading gauge. The whole job is 'dog's breakfast' and I'll eat my greasetop if it ever goes mainline. You'd need to see the the state of my greasetop to appreciate the seriousness of this....
    Ray.
     
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  10. 5944

    5944 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Maybe they should've gone for 811 numberplates, if it's only an 80% replica of 1014.
     
  11. hyboy

    hyboy New Member

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    Last edited: Sep 26, 2022
  12. bristolian

    bristolian Member

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    Please remember that only the firebox from 48518 was used in the new County. The boiler and smokebox are new.
     
  13. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Not even all of the firebox. That is why I for one am unhappy about that particular project. The few bits of the 8F boiler that they are re-using can't have saved them much money over a completely new one, but have lumbered the new loco with a lower working boiler pressure. But this has been said before and it's too late for them to change their minds now.
     
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  14. ady

    ady Well-Known Member

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    I'm interested in the reasons why 5944 thinks the standard 3MT, G5, F5 are 'too small' for preserved use.

    By that logic the Ivatt 2MTs, the M7 at Swanage, and the J15, etc, etc are too small as well.
     
  15. misspentyouth62

    misspentyouth62 Well-Known Member

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    A wander around Didcot GWS will show two sets of Hall wheel sets plus the cylinder block and front frames from 4942. The wheels from 4942 are placed by the entrance from Didcot Parkway station whilst those from 7927 are to be found with the other 'lumps' which until recently included a boiler and frames for 5227.

    I can't ever recall seeing a 25xx Dean boiler at Didcot although there used to be 'spare' pannier boiler from 9629 and more recently, the boiler from 2861 which was used as a template in the construction of 2999.
     
  16. 5944

    5944 Resident of Nat Pres

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    I didn't say too small. I meant they were small enough for preserved use.
     
  17. Paulthehitch

    Paulthehitch Well-Known Member

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    Big chufferitis?
     
  18. ady

    ady Well-Known Member

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    Oh oh see my apologies. I wish I could read at times.
     
  19. ady

    ady Well-Known Member

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    I know I can't talk but, let's not go there today.
     
  20. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Read the whole sub-thread properly! It says the opposite to what you think …

    Tom
     

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