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Current and Proposed New-Builds

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by aron33, Aug 15, 2017.

  1. Brakeman Bob

    Brakeman Bob New Member

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    I drive a computer every day doing CAD CAM and most of the medium to high end packages such as SolidWorks, Inventor, NX and CATIA are equally at home with metric or imperial units. The US still uses imperial measurements to quite a large degree and a lot of CAD software originates from there. I don't know about the preservation but in the aerospace world you still come across parts dimensioned in inches and any aerospace subbie worth their salt would be quite happy machining parts dimensioned or modelled in imperial units. To convert a CNC machine to take programs in decimal inches is a 5 minute job.
    For stess calculations however I would suspect it is a different story and I would guess that all the dimensions wold be converted to SI units as all the reference data and formulae would be structured in that system.

    Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk
     
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  2. class8mikado

    class8mikado Part of the furniture

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    Down in his Barn, my uncle preserved for me an old machine ( for 50 odd years...)
    Sure do....
     
  3. The Green Howards

    The Green Howards Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Ooh, yes please. The M&GN was one of the main lines round here, along with the GNR :)
     
  4. bluetrain

    bluetrain New Member

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  5. bluetrain

    bluetrain New Member

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    "Imperial Units" are those defined by the (UK Parliament) Weights & Measures Act of 1824, which tidied-up many local and industry-specific variations - conveniently just in time for the start of the railway age. That Act applied to the countries of the British Empire, but not to the USA which was already independent.

    The Americans use "United States Customary Units", which in some cases differ from British Imperial standards. Notable differences are that the Americans often use the short ton (2000 pounds) and short hundredweight (100 pounds) while UK standardized on the long ton (2240 pounds) and long hundredweight (112 pounds). Also the American volume measures differ, with the US gallon being much smaller than an imperial gallon. I understand that the US gallon derives from that used historically in the wine trade, while the Imperial gallon derives from that used in the ale industry.

    Many traditional units could be traced back centuries and were used across many countries, but with local variations. For example, a Scottish mile was longer than an English mile. I recall reading that Hungarian railways used to define axle loading limits in Hungarian tons, with 15½ Hungarian tons apparently equal to 16 British long tons.
     
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  6. Forestpines

    Forestpines Active Member

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    In Sweden many narrow-gauge lines were built to 3ft gauge - but the Swedish foot was 2.5% shorter than the British foot, giving a track gauge (still used today) of 891mm, as opposed to 914mm on Irish or American 3ft gauge
     
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  7. andrewshimmin

    andrewshimmin Active Member

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    Likewise I believe Iberian Gauge (5'6'' in Imperial) was six Castilian feet.
    A lot of this standardisation was caused by the industrialisation (the first globalisation as one might say) which the railways were part of.
    There wasn't a standard UK time until the railways made it necessary!
     
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  8. andrewshimmin

    andrewshimmin Active Member

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    If you're offering, although I prefer the outside cylinder 4-4-0s or even the Atlantic tanks.
    Alternatively, to get back on my hobby horse, you could do a Johnson 0-4-4T, and switch between Midland, S&DJR and M&GN liveries...
     
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  9. bluetrain

    bluetrain New Member

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    Was a Johnson 0-4-4T used on the M&GN? You could certainly have a Johnson 0-6-0 in any of those 3 liveries.
     
  10. andrewshimmin

    andrewshimmin Active Member

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    I'm not sure whether one actually was, but other Johnson types were used on all three railways (albeit with differing wheel dia and other details).
    But a Johnson 0-4-4T would look right in all three liveries...
    And as I keep saying, it would be a useful size of loco, and the Midland is woefully under-represented in preservation (the M&GN is too).
    Anyways, we in the preservation movement wouldn't be pedantic about a little thing like livery, if it looked good and gave people pleasure, would we....?!?!?!
    :)
     
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  11. 8126

    8126 Active Member

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    I tried it this morning with Ansys. You can change the unit convention with an extremely accessible menu command and it displays all your sizes, loads, stresses, everything, in the new convention with correct conversions (US system of course). Couldn't be easier.
     
  12. Hirn

    Hirn New Member

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    The very M&GNJR Beyer Peacock 4-4-0s with outside cylinders looked a quite remarkably good very best when they acquired the same Derby boiler as the Johnson 0-4-4 tank engines.
    So I would be in favour of at least one of each, ideally enough to justify a spare boiler. Johnson dome with Salter balances, brass cover to the
    lock up valve over the fire box and the elegant door fitting very simply into the front of the smokebox.

    ( One of those tank engines was the last Midland locomotive to emerge new in green before the change to Midland red.)
     
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  13. bluetrain

    bluetrain New Member

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    Aha! Midland Green!

    Johnson Midland engines might hold the steam-era record for the range of "historically authentic" liveries. Black of course (BR, LMS & LNER versions). But more appealingly - Midland Green, Midland Red, S&DJ Blue, M&GN Ochre, M&GN Brown (post WW1). You have to go to the modern train operating companies, who change their colours every couple of years, to see such variety.

    But do we have any reliable information on what shade of green the Midland used? Hamilton Ellis simply described it as "rich green".
     
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  14. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    The Bluebell's Billinton E4 carried six different liveries pre-preservation: Stroudley goods green; Stroudley Improved Engine Green; Marsh Umber; Southern Olive Green; unlined black with sunshine lettering; BR lined black.

    Tom
     
  15. ross

    ross Member

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    What was the livery of the Lynn & Fakenham Ry, and its successor the Eastern & Midlands Ry. The pics here https://www.national-preservation.com/threads/m-gn-class-a-rebuild-4-4-0-beyer-peacock-co.876415/ could be any rich dark colour.
     
  16. bluetrain

    bluetrain New Member

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    I did have the impression - possibly entirely false - that pre-grouping liveries had remained immutable since some point way back in the 19th century. I had noted a comment in an old book by Hamilton Ellis that "The London & South Western probably held the record for the variety of its locomotive liveries and for the number of times they were changed" (Several shades of green, interspersed with a dose of Indian red and 3 shades of brown).

    But it looks from your comment that the LBSC was rivalling the LSWR in this matter. Presumably "Stoudley's Improved Engine Green" only arrived with Stroudley, so there must have been an "Unimproved" engine livery before that.
     
  17. bluetrain

    bluetrain New Member

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    According to a David & Charles book on the M&GN by AJ Wrottesley, the Lynn & Fakenham locomotives were "green", while Yarmouth & North Norfolk engines were "a darker green". The Eastern & Midlands is stated to have adopted chocolate-brown, first applied on a batch of 4-4-0s delivered in 1883. So it looks like the "rich dark colour" in the pictures is chocolate-brown - that would certainly explain why it appears darker than the teak coaches.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
  18. Tobbes

    Tobbes New Member

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    Tom will correct us, but I thought it was "an improvement on engine green"...
     
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  19. fisher

    fisher New Member

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    It is a shame that the later boiler on the E4 precludes the painting of Birch Grove in its original Stroudley livery, although you could also argue that having the name Birch Grove on the Marsh Umber livery is also inappropriate. However, it has struck me that as it starts to think about the next new build after Beachy Head, rather than the complicated mogul or the antiquated craven which are currently being considered, that another E4 with original boiler would provide a) the variety of livery options that Tom describes so well b) some interchangeable parts with Birch Grove. Goods green is a livery which I think is a sad omission for the Bluebell and its LBSCR pedigree.
     
  20. The Green Howards

    The Green Howards Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    AIUI Wrottesley is considered the definitive work on the M&GN.
     

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