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Current and Proposed New-Builds

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by aron33, Aug 15, 2017.

  1. fergusmacg

    fergusmacg Resident of Nat Pres

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    Don't know, although having looked at "the blog" it did not fill me with confidence having twice "planned" a visit to see the surviving example in France and nothing about ever actually getting there.

    At least there are some drawings on there which is further than some of the "Facebook fantasy" type projects have got.


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  2. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    That was my reaction too. I confess I found the drawings put me a little too much in mind of Ivor the Engine or the illustrations in the Forest of Boland Light Railway by BB.


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  3. The Green Howards

    The Green Howards Nat Pres stalwart

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    An engine for the Steampunk brigade, if ever there was one.
     
  4. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    That one has intrigued me for a while. Seemingly they have raised (and presumably spent) a considerable sum on drawings and design work - £55k is mentioned - which suggests the project is rather beyond the Facebook / Hornby catalogue intersection.

    On the other hand, a few things leap out:
    • I'm wondering whether the specified oval cross section boiler would be acceptable these days?
    • Lots of website activity for about two years, but nothing since February 2017 despite appealing for supporters.
    • Just suppose it were to be built - I wonder where you would run such a loco? In as much as the originals had any success (mostly in northern Europe), it was on flat straight lines hauling light loads quickly, which isn't really preserved railway territory, and certainly not preserved railway territory in the parts of the country that used Cramptons here.
    I'd love to see it, but I'm reserving judgement at the moment.

    Tom
     
  5. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    I note also on their website "a wide range of opportunities to define and achieve educational, training, cultural and social objectives in Britain, the members of the E.E.C. and other countries." The EEC was subsumed into the EU many years ago.
     
  6. fergusmacg

    fergusmacg Resident of Nat Pres

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    Sounds like an ideal loco for the Great Central Rly to me . . . . .


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  7. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    I’m not sure that’s a recommendation...


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  8. pete2hogs

    pete2hogs Member

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    One was rebuilt with an A1 boiler, but evidently without improvement.
     
  9. estwdjhn

    estwdjhn Member

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    Knowing one of the guys behind this, unlike a lot of the Facebook WIBN crowd, this is fairly serious - it's a group with a fair overlap with the crowd who built "Planet", so they've a fair idea about what they are letting themselves in for.

    (full disclosure - although I'm not really part of the group, I've a set of boiler drawings from them currently sat in my living room to see how it will stand up to a design approval process).
     
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  10. sir gilbert claughton

    sir gilbert claughton Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately
     
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  11. sir gilbert claughton

    sir gilbert claughton Well-Known Member

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    I suppose it's ok to dream...………….. but why consider wasting time and possibly money on a near useless Crampton . the LNWR got rid of theirs in pretty short order . and a Caprotti 5 . nobody thought much of them when we had them . ok , faster than a normal 5 , but gutless until they got a decent lick on . not to mention ugly . I saw most of them and they were all plug ugly . BR only built 2 with double chimney Caprotti gear and roller bearings . then went on to build the 73xxx standards . hardly a ringing endorsement is it ?
    0-6-4 ? do me a favour .

    if we are seriously gonna talk about potential new builds talk about something that would have a proper use for the time and money like a sorted out small boiler Claughton which would be at least as good as a Jubilee . or a LNWR 19" goods which would be perfect for a preserved line . maybe a new Cardean if only for the spectacle .
    if you want summat antique with real interest why not try to get the Bloomer project finished?
    and how about a new Ionic compound with the obvious flaws sorted .

    ok I know that's mostly North Western stuff , but that's 'cos it was the most interesting company and seriously under represented . yep Cardean is Caley , but what do we have from the Caley that is running ?
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2018
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  12. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

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    828 and soon to have 419?
     
  13. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    I for one would absolutely love to see a working Claughton, though even if the project started tomorrow I might not live long enough. It's an interesting thought that keeping the Claughton's small boiler but sorting out the various other weaknesses of the original might produce a loco as good as a Jubilee. Can you justify that? A Jubilee is more or less a taper-boilered Patriot, and a Patriot is a large Claughton boiler on top of an improved chassis. So the bottom half of your improved Claughton would need to be very good indeed to achieve the same performance with the smaller boiler, let alone even better.
     
  14. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    Depends on what you term "improvement". The A2s themselves were decidedly average locomotives. Good for their day - they were not incapable machines. Doubtless the Gresley line was more capable of sustained development, hence the A2 was an engineering dead end. Looked good though.
     
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  15. 8126

    8126 Member

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    @S.A.C. Martin may be able to correct me on this, but my recollection is that in comparative trials between the classes, the A2 boiler actually came out quite well, even if the package as a whole was inferior with less potential for development than the A1. I suspect the rebuild with an A1 boiler was to provide a spare boiler for the class, thus improving their time in works, without having to build a brand new boiler of non-standard type specifically for a class that may well already have been pencilled in for early withdrawal.
     
  16. Hermod

    Hermod Member

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    Gressley decided that his wonderscheme with funny valve drive due to inside-cylinder(s) driving second coupled axle was better than having inside cylinder(s) with convetional valve gear driving first coupled axle.

    He was rather alone in that judgement .
    Bulleid followed suit .
    Royal Scot did not plus most other british multi-cylindered expres locomotives
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2018
  17. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    You are quite correct. The A2 was rather better than is described by most historians, despite the evidence in front of them. Balance and fairness in reporting does not appear to be much of an LNER trait I am afraid!

    However the A1 was capable of being taken much further and that is why the A3 was developed.

    More info can be found here on the LNER encyclopaedia: https://www.lner.info/locos/A/a2.php
     
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  18. sir gilbert claughton

    sir gilbert claughton Well-Known Member

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    there were aspects of the Claughton design that were in advance of even Stanier's designs -valve gear for instance. the boiler was a superb steam raiser and of course the lack of hammer blow was a major advantage .
    5906 Ralph Brocklebank produced a very similar performance to 5660 Rooke even tho, 5906 steam circuit was less than perfect. 5908 is reputed to have exceeded the performance of 5906 , although no dynamometer car was used , so make your own judgement on that .
    as we know , the Jubilees were disappointing on their introduction and 5660 only produced the goods when sorted .
    Bowen Cooke intended to "take them in hand" (the Claughtons ) but sadly events overtook him. the history of the LMS would have been very different had he continued.

    so , an off the shelf Claughton was as good as a sorted Jubilee.

    the Claughtons rep. was marred by the use of the wide Schmitt piston ring , the use of which was a condition of using the Schmitt superheater. when they were fitted with the Webb type piston rings they produced economy results comparable with the GWR Castle.

    the daily work the LNWR expected from their Claughtons was of a much higher standard than that required from a Jub . 450 tons over Shap unassisted for a start .
    the Claughtons never had the benefit of a thorough sorting out . WW1 was largely to blame , but to my mind their true potential was never realised .
    as a final thought , remember they were only theoretically a class 5 loco .
     
  19. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    Question for the LNER fans among us - in part linked to the building of the new Gresley B17s.

    My recollection talking with a friend just now was that the B17s did not have conjugated valve gear, rather having divided drive between front and middle axles for their three cylinders. Am I wrong...? I cannot seem to find a source to hand to confirm.
     
  20. sir gilbert claughton

    sir gilbert claughton Well-Known Member

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    you are correct . they were designed and built by NBL within certain parameters -- which did not include valve gear. apparently it was pretty reliable ..lol
     

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