Crimson Lake - RAL reference ?

The LCLR is planning to re-paint two Ashover coaches. They were originally 'LMS Crimson lake', which I believe was a colour applied between 1923 and 1946, being translucent, and gave a different appearance if applied on a white or red oxide primer. The colour is reportedly different to 'Crimson Lake' applied after 1946, that morphed into BR maroon.

Has anyone ever researched any contemporary samples, and if so what would they say was a reasonable RAL reference, bearing in mind red paint nowadays has more pigment in it.

Regards

Peter

 

Could you check with the golden valley railway to see how they prepped and painted theirs?


Keith

 

I can't help with a RAL number but the Midland, and later the LMS, used red oxide as the undercoat. As you say crimson lake is somewhat translucent so the undercoat 'shines through. I seem to remember reading that the M.R. put a coat of 50%/50% mix of varnish and topcoat on before final varnishing. Why not have a word with the LMSCA chaps at Rowsley and see what they used?
Best of luck with your project.
Ray.

 

According to Hamilton Ellis the recipe was: two coats lead grey, all rough places being stopped with a mixture of gold size and dry white lead, rubbed smooth with water and pumice; four coats of purple brown; one of crimson lake with an admixture of purple brown. after lining out five coats of varnish were applied. This may not yet help you because some materials are unobtainable and the precise colour that we call crimson lake isn't defined. As suggested the chaps at Butterley or Rowsley may know how to obtain the same results but take note of the number of coats required!

 

We are not trying to be 'historically accurate' just because the original process used was so involved and the materials no longer available.

What we would like to achieve is something that looks 'in keeping' even if it is not correct. For the first coach it will be left LCLR configuration, so nothing like as representative as No 4 on the GVLR.

We have to use modern paints, we can not afford the time or materials as original, hence the question, has anyone ever achieved a 'satisfactory' result, and if so what colour reference was used.

Regards

Peter