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Cotswold Venturer, 70013, 10/02/18

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by 1020 Shireman, Jan 18, 2018.

  1. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Part of the furniture Friend

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    The timings are up for this one.
    Outward: 1Z50
    http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U55471/2018/02/10/advanced

    Return: 1Z52
    http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U55475/2018/02/10/advanced

    Should be no diesel as there's also the following:

    0Z50
    http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U55477/2018/02/10/advanced
    to take the diesel back from PAD to Southall in the morning; and

    0Z52
    http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U55478/2018/02/10/advanced
    for a diesel to come from Southall to Pad to collect the train after the return.
     
  2. Steamage

    Steamage Part of the furniture

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    Might get a glimmer of sun as Ollie passes through Oxford on Saturday morning, but looks like the return trip will mostly be in the rain.
     
  3. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Part of the furniture

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    So it would appear that with a diesel on both the Cardiff and Norwich trips, and almost certainly on the March 3rd York trip this has the possibility of being the final steam only Oliver Cromwell mainline tour for some time (for ever?)
     
  4. Michellis

    Michellis New Member

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    ...and therefore unmissable !!

    In fact is 70013 being overhauled and likely to be return to the mainline in due course?
    Or is this really the end?
     
  5. Will RL

    Will RL Member

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    3rd March marks the end of Cromwell’s mainline ticket. It’s boiler certificate ends in the same month but given the loco was out of action for a couple of years there’s hope for a years extension with limited steamings on preserved railways. If successful in the application this will bring in extra revenue towards fast tracking an overhaul, and given a lot of boiler work was done prior to returning to the mainline it’s hoped it’ll be a fast turn around with another stint on the mainline to follow.
     
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  6. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    Limited steamings over 12 months would be a comparatively small return financially, surely? Make more sense to get the overhaul done quickly and earning the big bucks again?
    Is there any prospect of deacession to gain access to grant funding?
     
  7. Will RL

    Will RL Member

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    But with 2018 marking 50 years since the end of steam and given 70013’s role at the very end, would it not be fitting to see it run this year if given the opportunity?
     
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  8. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    Sentimentally yes, but if it had been felt to be important the new ticket would be in hand to make it available for a proper commemoration ie on the mainline.
     
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  9. Michellis

    Michellis New Member

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    Thanks for the comprehensive answer to my question Will.
    Much appreciated,
    Nic.
     
  10. hatherton hall

    hatherton hall Well-Known Member

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    Could use Britannia and rename it for the 50 year celebration? I'd settle for that!
     
  11. thickmike

    thickmike Member

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    Hi. To put this into context, haven't seen anyone complain that Clan Line didn't work the last Bournemouth Belle in the 60's nor the last steam out of Waterloo but those trips were fully enjoyed this past summer. If you can get a ride behind a Britannia on the GE main line - do it. There won't be another chance. And when we get round to the last rites in the summer of this year, if there's steam we'll be blessed. If there's a Brit to do the honours, even better. Make the most of what we have - 196x is gone. Enjoy the steam we have today and be thankful there is any at all -anyone here old enough to remember 1970 when we thought we would never EVER see steam on the mainline again?

    Mike
     
  12. Where's Mazeppa?

    Where's Mazeppa? Member

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    Eloquently put, and agree 110%. Ben at Vintage Trains has for long been expressing similar sentiments, and perhaps I would sum it all up by saying that if we want - as we do - to have the authority to be critical of and express reservations about aspects of main line steam operations that don't quite accord with our view of the "ideal" the "perfect", and the "totally authentic", then so too do we have the responsibility to acknowledge how lucky we have been, how lucky we are, and how good things are likely to stay in the near term future in relation to the choice of main line steam experiences that we can still enjoy.

    I would tend to share some of the misgivings about some aspects of Cromwell's current round of curtain-call outings. But elsewhere, given some fairly exciting outings in prospect with Tornado and Clan Line in the near future, and the rebirth of Vintage Trains as a TOC in 2018, there is just so much to savour, and so much to eagerly anticipate.

    There. I've said it. Joyful rant (them's the best kind) over!!
     
  13. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    I guess question A is will the NRM agree to another overhaul
    Question B is do the GCR/HLPG have the cash and desire to take on the overhaul
    Question C is will there be enough work to justify a main line return ? Move to owner TOC's and using their own fleet (WCRC,IoS,VT) must challenge the business model for loco owning groups who will be chasing potentially diminishing pool of work
     
  14. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Quite right. There just has to be a realignment of expectations.

    1. Pure steam on the mainline with a rake of coaches (whatever their colour) even if it is a bit pricey and no diesel in sight. Be delighted.
    2. The above with a diesel accompaniment but only for heating/shunting. Be pleased.
    3. The above where the diesel assists at times. Be grateful.

    I remember a discussion with Bob Meanley in the Discovery Museum in Newcastle on the day of the 90 mph Bittern run when he forecast the future over steam on the main line and inter alia, imminent rolling stock improvements. That was four year ago and it is now coming to pass.
     
  15. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Part of the furniture Friend

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    Realignment of Expectations has always been with supporters of mainline steam. We joined the club in August 1984. Changes were always happening. We have special tickets for Green Arrow's final two S&Cs in 1989 that were commemorating the last steam over the S&C as it was being closed!! There weren't that many steam routes in the 1980's other than on special occasions like GWR 150 that allowed steam over the South Devon Banks. Steam out of Waterloo to Bournemouth didn't happen until 1992, and then in the dark!! Big changes happened when Open Access was challenged and used by Mel Chamberlain to open up the whole network, subject to clearances, and how we've loved what's happened since. 75 mph running in particular changed things big time. There were rumours that mainline steam was going to end in 1999; we had the MK1 coach threat; you name it we've seen it. Who would have thought there would ever be a new build A1 on the mainline? let alone one with a 90 mph ticket!

    The end game might be in sight as the big railway is getting more and more congested. Pathing is dreadful on so many routes now. I differ on 1 in as much that if a Steam Hauled train is advertised and I pay for it, I expect it to be just that with no 2 or 3.
    Saphos have sadly made 2 their operating norm. That's fine as they've had the decency to make the the statement in their T&Cs and when you contact them they tell you. Good honest company but one I'll probably never travel with as I'm allergic to manned and fired up diesels on the rear of trains.

    All 3 happen and are known to be happening in advance so I feel the major realignment has to come from the Promoters. That is to be honest in their advertising when 2 and 3 will occur to allow potential customers to make a properly informed choice before they buy. We all know how hard it is to get money back.

    Not on thread but there is still no mention of the diesels on the rear in Steam Dreams latest revised Emails regarding the Norwich and Cardiff Trains. Customers deserve to be fully informed about what they are spending their money on.

    2 is only interesting when the engine is Tornado and the TOC DBC; otherwise 3 invariably happens and the assistance is 'lots' of times in all the fun places like on every bank and to get the train up to speed after any kind of stop. The other major issue with 3 is the real discomfort for the poor folk in the coach with the diesel directly behind it. When 2 and 3 are known a barrier brake should be between them. The weight doesn't matter as the diesel is there.

    But grateful is not a sentiment I can bring myself to feel about diesel assisted trains and would never knowingly pay to travel that way. Over the years we've walked away from over 20 on the day. Every time there was a lot of diesel assistance so regrets were none. It's only money. But that's me.

    It all probably means I'll never get to the magical 1,000 Steam Hauled Railtours in England, Scotland and Wales; but then again I never thought we'd get to 867 which Saturday's is. There's still fun to be had and steam to enjoy. I'm taking the optimistic view. Got 15 more booked this year already with the hope they'll all run as advertised.
     
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  16. Johnb

    Johnb Resident of Nat Pres

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    You are starting to get a bit unrealistic again. Pull the loco now and overhaul it. Do you really think, assuming that there will be no nasties found when they dismantle it, it could be ready and run in by August 11? I'm just grateful that 10 years after I saw it on the 1T57 recreation over the S&C both main line steam and me are still around.
     
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  17. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Bloody hell that would be a joyous and bumper edition of Steam Railway which would follow that, certain contributors would think all their Christmases had come at once! ;)
     
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  18. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Me. And I was out for KGV's triumphant return - even if it did come from an inferior stabile. :)
     
  19. Johnb

    Johnb Resident of Nat Pres

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    Me too, I didn't do 1T57 as it was my girlfriend's birthday but as she dumped me a few months later with hindsight I should have done. I got back to Stockport on the Bahamas' Loco Society train on August 3rd and watched 70013 roll with the RCTS train, uncouple and disappear south and thought 'well that's it'. For the next 3 or four years it was off to Germany for the steam fix.
     
  20. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    Yes it is unrealistic now to have it ready but thats one of my points. The NRM, just as with the Scotsman centenary, should have managed the terms of custody partnership to ensure 70013 was mainline certified as of August 18.
    That said even now if the loco was in Rileys custody, for example, it would be turned round in time for August, I feel confident.
     

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