Class 507 to be preserved at Nant Mawr, funding appeal launched

Given that we're discussing "National Preservation" and bringing the Heritage Community Together, it sounds like we've saved enough and are now just resigned to ho-humming that the world cannot save anything more, let alone everything as I'm seeing some might be perceiving.
I am also wondering whether the same narrative would be forthcoming from those interested in other forms of historical transport and artefacts?

Maybe, and I am only jesting....., we need a one in one out policy. What would you swap??

 

This was something I was thinking of but couldn't articulate at the start of the Pacers being preserved. The actual experience is utilitarian to a fault. They (Pacers and PEP stock) are only a couple of steps away from being easily hosed down with a drain in the floor. To quote James May:

 

It's a good job nobody thought like this about some of the pre-grouping 4/6-wheeled stock then, or indeed the Gresley Quad-arts.

 

Most heritage railways are aimed at representing the steam era, with appropriate locos, rolling stock, buildings etc. This being the case, why is it seen as necessary for them to keep expanding their collection to include ever more modern rolling stock?
Surely the preservation of significant rolling stock is already in the hands of the NRM, heritage railways do not need to try to duplicate their work, especially when they are severely restricted by finance, volunteer numbers and land.

 

The "one in one out policy" already exists, it's just not always obvious. There are a few railways now where BR standard 4's are regular performers while pre nationalisation examples that need new boilers/wheels etc. have been on static display for decades. I'm not saying that they will never run again, I'm just saying that there's a finite number of artifacts that can be selected for running preservation. Luckily for steam, many of these are displayed so they can be returned to in future, so it's a very soft "one in one out".

My second non-specific example is railways who have taken in Pacers and condemned any commentators who suggested they were replacements for existing first generation DMU's that had not been given the maintenance resource they deserved. "Definitely not" it was said! Two or three years on and one is reading of "revisions to the collection", "limited time and resource" and "uneconomic repairs of heritage DMU fleet" leading to their advertisment for disposal. Coincidence? I think not! The only catch here, IMO, is will actual disposal of these steam era units lead to regret in 30 years time when the Pacers are equally knackered and members are asking why they are putting big money into them when they could have "done a proper job" on a first gen unit that looks tasty alongside a BR standard?

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Manx tramcars have slatted wooden seats. Do we bin those too?

 

Did we? Citation needed.

 

I’ll go first. I’d swap the 313 for a 507…

More seriously, you need a dose of reality. There isn’t a growth in capacity to store an infinite number of trains of any kind… sooner or later, you’ll run out of scope (I’d argue that to all intents and purposes we have already).

Moreso, there isn’t the interest to sustain it from punters.

The steam era has caché that 1980s suburban, 1990s regional or 2000s cross country services don’t.

Even the golden era of mainline diesels barely registers with Joe Public unmoved by Deltics or Westerns… almost no one beyond the hardcore will have any interest in 66/67/68 preservation in years to come.

Lastly the circumstances that allowed steam-era preservation (eg Beeching, Woodhams, more permissive rules) don’t (and will never again) exist.

Save your energy and enthusiasm for keeping and improving what we have.

Simon

 

Good answer Simon

 

I had a conversation a few years ago with a volunteer at a preserved line who was lamenting the fact one of their wagons was about to be scrapped. Admittedly it was an old wooden open with wooden solebars, but it had rotted away so much the buffers were bending down nearly touching the rails. The ironwork was almost nonexistent in places. It would've taken thousands of pounds and hundreds of man hours to restore, and for what purpose? It's a shame it got into that state, but it was better to put it out of its misery sooner rather than later and devote time, effort and money to more worthwhile projects.

 

In which case it becomes about conservation rather than restoration: arresting the inevitable decline as much as you can. There's a wooden-framed wagon on the NVR that realistically has no hope of running but it would be a pity to see its oldest wagon scrapped for no good reason.

In a similar vein, I'm rather hoping that people will put their hands in their pockets and contribute to the removal and ultimate restoration of the Howlden Diagram 245 teak six-wheeler - preservation isn't just about impossibly-shiny steam engines. I am reliably informed that the most popular train at the NNR recently was the "Victorian" train they ran.

https://www.gnrsociety.com/d245-restoration/

 

A significant percentage of the UK had zero experience of EMUs, whereas most areas had exposure to steam and diesel traction, inc DMUs.

Coming from Sheffield, anyone with a long memory will recall that we did once revel in the miracles of electric traction, but even then all our trains were local hauled (not so over the hill, but never travelled on one).

My only experience of first gen EMUs was after moving to Coventry in the 70s, with slam door non-corridor stock on the Brum trains, with the abiding memory being on a Saturday night, after as session in the big city, attempting to balance with one foot on either seat whilst trying to aim out of the droplight and praying we didn’t enter a tunnel. Not something I need to re-live (relieve?)!

For me EMUs are anodyne, I wouldn’t contribute to a museum or pay to visit one. Each to their own etc.

 

Th

The NNR vintage train was rammed and standing rom only when I was there on Saturday. The Quad-Art set was almost as popular.

 

Nope, sometimes it's about accepting that some things have run their course and need to be put out of everyone's misery I'm afraid. Conserving takes a ton of effort too. People risk falling into the 'sunk cost' fallacy, in this case, 'we bought it, it's lasted this long, it must last forever.' Nope, bin it, focus on assets with a future. @5944 's wagon example is a classic case of stuff outlasting its worth and distracting people from more valuable work.

This feels like a rather different beast – feels like the type of thing which, if in good nick, punters would flock to in preference to a Mk1… it has general appeal and utility, and you could easily imagine it being an attraction in its own right if done well.

Simon

 

Not if you believe some posters on here, who would deem it far too utilitarian...

 

I don't agree with this solely populist attitude to railway preservation.

 

That’s fair enough, but if it’s not popular then how will it be funded?


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