Channel 4 Programme

Operational pre-group 0-6-0s are rather more common than many other types that were typical of the time, for example, 2-4-0s. To pick up on @martin1656 's original point of playing fantasy NRM restoration, if you were looking for a loco to really tell a story, the Dean Goods is actually one of the less interesting (lots of other 0-6-0s out there; lots of GWR tender engines etc). Something like Hardwicke would be considerably more interesting (no runnable 2-4-0s; no runnable LNWR locos, despite it being such a major railway, etc etc).

Tom

 

What about Coal Tank 1054? Last time I checked that was both an LNWR loco and operable

I would argue perhaps that, if we're wanting to go for interesting NRM locos that tell a story, you should perhaps consider GNR C1 251. The first wide-boxed loco, which paved the way for most of the new top link express loco designs to be built from the 1920s onwards. It was the progenitor to the Pacifics, and a major milepost on the pathway towards locos like Flying Scotsman (one of the best known steam locos), the A4s (the fastest design of steam locos), the Duchesses (in terms of measured horsepower output, the most powerful British express engines of all time), the Bulleids (some of the most innovative and out-of-the-box-thinking locos built in Britain) and 71000 (the last express locos in Britain), as well as locos like the V2s, P2s and 9Fs, all of which also had wide boxes. That particular element of a locomotive's anatomy first appeared in Britain with 251. Plus, it's a testament to the potential of their design (and the changing priorities of a railway locomotive policy that war enforces) that, with a couple of developments, like superheating, the Atlantics for 20 years remained the top link motive power out of Kings Cross, and even in the 30s were known to not only take over services from Gresley pacifics, but also run them to time, and in some circumstances, run faster than scheduled (scroll down to the paragraph beginning "even in the 1930s" for a noticeable incident https://www.lner.info/locos/C/c1.php).

 

D'oh!

 

I must confess, I nearly posted that 251 was the only operable GNR loco before deciding it would be wise to double check, and thus finding a certain N2 is still in action!! Close call!

 

I'd be less embarrassed were it not for the fact that I've fired the thing within the last six months!

It's not my main interest, but it has always struck me that for such a major company, the LNWR has been somewhat badly served in preservation.

Tom

 

Absolutely! Let's get that Bloomer, and the George's the Fifth new build built.
Next, a Cauliflower and a Webb Radial tank?

 

I think that's probably due to very few of its 'interesting' designs, such as express locos, making it through to nationalisation. If you consider the LSWR, SECR, GNR, GCR, GER, MR, NBR, all have express designs which either made it through to the late 50s / early 60s when preservation got off the ground, or at least survived until the 50s when more of an effort began to be made on creating a national collection. Whereas by that stage the LMS had almost completely purged its ranks of LNWR express locos

 

Has 251 been streamed in preservation? thinking about it, there until Beachy head steams there are no active Atlantic's and of course as with any other class of engine once restored and in steam, it has to be able to haul an average load that most of our heritage railways would expect to operate , So 251 would of course fit that need, and what would it look like piloting 60103 on the NYMR teaks , or on the SVR ?

 

251 last steamed in 1954. The boiler is in poor condition as it is saturated but retains flues from a superheater which was removed, because in the 50s they wanted locos to be as close to as-built condition as possible. Which to me seems completely ridiculous (they also replaced the piston valve cylinders with smaller slide valve cylinders, and even gave it new frames to the original pattern which could only fit a shallower firebox, so in trying to make it more like the original, they've made it less 251, one could have a huge debate over how much and what you need to retain to be able to claim it's the same loco), but that was the done thing back then. Returning it to traffic would probably require a lot of work to make it less like as-built condition, which the NRM probably wouldn't be too happy with

 

Typical isn't it - a TV programme highlights the 'unsung heros' of preservation - carriages (in which our passengers travel and without which the shinny, chuffy things on the front are pretty pointless) and those who restore them, and it takes less than 3 pages for the debate on here to start saying 'I wish it was locos' and then debating which - there are plenty rare and unique, as well as potentially very useful, carriages rotting away that need saving while it is possible.

As a heritage railway GM once said to me 'why do people obsess with building sheds for tough locomotives and yet are happy to leave much 'softer' carriages out in all weathers?'!!!

Steven

 

Agree completely, the best follow up programme would be a second batch of four carriages. Ideally they should all be 'every day' vehicles.

 

Absolutely agree with these comments. Coaches getting this level of attention is a breath of fresh air. Let's stay on topic.

Looking forward to watching this series. The IOWR and LSWR coaches are the most exciting to me, being the first IOWR coach ever restored, and only the second (I think) LSWR coach restored to carry passengers on a preserved railway.

Will also enjoy watching the LNER and Pullman episodes. As someone else said, it will be interesting to see how much work the Pullman required, given that it's been in use relatively recently.

 

I'm also really looking forward to watching the full series, and yes a follow up carriage series would be brilliant.

 

Maybe they could follow it up and include a carriage shed to put them in on the basis that the reason so many interesting coaches are in such poor condition is the fact they are stored outside in all weathers. The 4 coaches that have been restored, Will they be kept undercover now ?

 

Well said. Just as LNWR engines have done badly in preservation, so have LSWR coaches! (Which has always struck me as a bit odd, since plenty of them survived well into the BR era...?) Let's just hope that more grounded bodies will make it back to the rails in the coming years - especially as there is no shortage of suitable engines to run them with!

 

To me the golden opportunity to rectify the LSWR carriage situation is the new (ish!) carriage works on the Mid Hants. They already have an Ironclad, and there are plenty of other LSWR coaches they could probably get their hands on if they wanted to. For example the dining coaches at Pontypool were for sale not long ago (and may still be). Unfortunately they seem to be planning to restore LBSCR 4 wheelers instead, which are completely out of place for the line and its locos, can already be seen elsewhere, and have limited use because of their low capacity.

Anyway that's another story.

Here's hoping that the Swanage Railway can borrow 17 and 1520 when the T3 is relaunched into service.

 

One certainly will be.

Actually, it is not absolutely accurate to say that IWR No. 10 is the first from that railway to be revived. IWR No. 46 was actually the first, although admittedly of North London Railway origin.

PH

 

4 different railways, 4 different Mk1's?!

 

That's much, much, too everyday!

PH

 

Yes I’m aware of IWR 46, but as you say that was bought by the IWR second hand from the NLR.

The problem with the restoration of the IOWR coaches is that no brake coaches survive. Is the intention to build a replica brake coach?