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Cathedrals Express to Norwich 22/02/18

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by 1020 Shireman, Jan 29, 2018.

  1. RalphW

    RalphW Part of the furniture Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    But surely still a valid reason, whether the restriction has been there 3 years or 3 days.
     
  2. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Well-Known Member Friend

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    Thanks for the reply James.
    Is the train lightweight enough to negate the need to assist? As you say, it's a congested railway, they all are; but once the 127 tons dead weight is on, the time a Brit would take to get to speed after any stops and to get to 75 mph is increased greatly, which is why we so often see them powering on.
     
  3. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Well-Known Member Friend

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    And that's where we differ.

    It's a great shame as the 2008 and 2009 runs were superb; a Brit doing what it was built for. With the extra weight of the '47 on the rear assistance will undoubtedly happen to get to 75 mph and to get away from rest and any adverse signals etc. That's not my idea of a Steam Hauled Train. Glad we did the previous trains. Great shame for the big engine.
     
  4. 61648

    61648 New Member

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    Fully appreciate your point, given the choice I too would rather see the train unassisted, however as we don't see as much steam on the GE as elsewhere in the country, if the choice is assistance or no train at all, I would rather have the assistance.
     
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  5. John Petley

    John Petley Well-Known Member

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    The problem is that we are in a minority at least as far as the overall market for main line steam is concerned. James' post says a lot about the initial planning of the tours. An operator, in this case, Steam Dreams, says to West Coast, "We'd like to run from Liverpool Street to Norwich with 70013". That's the opening gambit. We would prefer them to be approaching West Coast saying "We'd like to give 70013 a final fling around East Anglia. Where can we go from and to without needing a shove in the rear?" The fact is that if the vast majority of passengers felt as we do, the itineraries for main line steam trains operated by West Coast would probably look rather different - and more limited.

    SD and (in the south, at least) RTC continue to operate viable businesses in spite of the presence of a tail gunner shows on many of their trips and this shows that it really isn't a big deal for some people. I'm thankful that we have the alternative of UKRT's trains with Clan Line and Tornado. My only gripe is that I would like to see clearer indication on the website and in brochures of the tour operators as to whether or not the train will run unassisted as my guess is that West Coast would know pretty early on in the discussions about a given itinerary whether a diesel will be needed. A couple of lines to that effect in the website/brochure would be a great help.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2018
  6. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Well-Known Member

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    I can't speak for Steam Dreams passengers but you are correct John for many passengers on RTC trips where I have been a steward on. If they can get to see a loco at a water stop, see steam or smoke going past the window and hear the loco most seem happy. A great many passengers seem to be unaware of a diesel being on the back if they get on at an intermediate pick up, and those that get on at the start if it is a London Terminal are often very surprised it is not there if it has been left behind. I do accept however that for those next to the diesel all day, for example on a Weymouth or Swanage trip then the experience will obviously not be so good.
    That is not to say we are wrong in hoping for no diesel, but hey if I travel on a regular train I am happy if it arrives within 30 minutes of schedule (especially as SWR is my local TOC). So it is all down to your own expectations.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 2, 2018
  7. 26D_M

    26D_M Well-Known Member

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    Providing the information about a diesel would be positive in many respects. For some there would be reassurance of operational back up, others may be pleased to have a heritage diesel 'cop' as alluded to with the County of Essex 47 mentioned up thread. Finally those that object would not book so no complaints arrive after the train has run.
    All in all the rationale for omitting the detail escapes me.
     
  8. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Well-Known Member Friend

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    This will be a train that will 'test' the WCR commitment of diesels not assisting unless required. I've been told it's load 9 + POB as the original plans were to run without a diesel and Liverpool Street can't handle more than 10 plus a steam engine. That makes it load 13 ish which is well within a Brit's compass on a route like the GEML. Might go just to see what transpires on the day. 50/50 chance of the diesel being on the standard end.
     
  9. MellishR

    MellishR Well-Known Member Friend

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    Not to dispute that, but just desiring some clarification: is that 20 mph for all trains at present or just for one with a steam loco on the front because of a gauging issue somewhere? And do you mean that the 20 mph path for the railtour train occupies the line for so long that an additional path for the diesel LE can't be fitted in?

    When the train gets to Brentwood Bank, is the intention to have the diesel dead, taking its own weight, or pushing?

    Presumably, with the diesel on the back at least as far as the Colchester pick-up, dropping it off there would be much complication for minimal benefit, and leaving it attached does facilitate the shunting at Norwich, even though it's not essential there.
     
  10. 61648

    61648 New Member

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    Cannot say for sure but given the already congested nature of the GEML coupled with the ongoing work to convert Liverpool Street to Shenfield for Crossrail, I would not be surprised to hear that there are no spare paths for a LE movement.
     
  11. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Well-Known Member Friend

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    If you look at the times for EMUs cf the CathEx, the EMU time to Stratford is 6 mins; the CathEx is 14 mins; so must be a weight restriction over part or all of the section. For JS' comments to make sense it must apply to the Class 47 as well. Not familiar with the route at all so have no idea where the Class 47 could leave the GEML to return to Southall after the CathEx leaves.
     
  12. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Well-Known Member Friend

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    Anyone had tickets for this train? Can't access their website either.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2018
  13. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Working for me.
     
  14. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Well-Known Member

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    Not worked for me all day, same at 14:48
     
  15. 70000

    70000 New Member

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    Tickets came through today.
     
  16. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Well-Known Member Friend

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    Back up now except for the timings page. Says only 4 seats left in Standard. Sorry, 3. Diesel lovers must be booking. So SD don't want standard Class on their trains... Presumably 70013 is fine as there's nothing about a change of locomotive.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2018
  17. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Well-Known Member Friend

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    Got our tickets today, issue with our btinternet email address again. They are in Coach J which I guess is the last carriage in the rake, it being the 9th letter in the alphabet. Still a 50/50 chance of the diesel being slap up against the carriage.
     
  18. ykin01

    ykin01 New Member

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    Excuse my ignorance but looking at Real Time Trains she stops in Ipswich on the return journey for around 18mins - it says in the platform column 'TL' just wondering what that might stand for? Many Thanks.
     
  19. 30567

    30567 Well-Known Member Friend

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    Through Line?
     
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  20. mrKnowwun

    mrKnowwun Part of the furniture

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    Do we have any news on 70013's availability for this trip after the Windsor failure?
     

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