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Cathedrals Express to Norwich 22/02/18

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by 1020 Shireman, Jan 29, 2018.

  1. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Part of the furniture Friend

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    Hmmm, timings have gone up on RTT for this one.
    At present there is no light engine path back from Liverpool Street back to Southall.
    There's a tight 10 minutes dwell time at Norwich before the train moves to Norwich TC.
    Not sure what the Norwich TC to Norwich TC path is. Anyone?
    After return there's a 19 minute dwell time before the stock return to Southall. No inbound light engine path that I can find.
    How ignominious it will be if Cromwell's last run for lord knows how long over his former home railway is going to have a diesel shoving all day.
    We'll burn out tickets if that is the case.

    Stock in: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U55039/2018/02/22/advanced
    Outward: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U55042/2018/02/22/advanced
    To Norwich TC: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U55037/2018/02/22/advanced
    NTC-NTC: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U55043/2018/02/22/advanced
    From NTC to Norwich: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U55040/2018/02/22/advanced
    Return: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U55041/2018/02/22/advanced
    Stock out: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U55038/2018/02/22/advanced
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2018
  2. gwr4090

    gwr4090 Part of the furniture

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    Norwich TC to Norwich TC is the turning move. I suspect this train will have the diesel present all day unfortunately.
     
  3. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Part of the furniture Friend

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    Thanks Dave. What a sad end that would be to what might be 70013's last run over his old metals.
     
  4. torgormaig

    torgormaig Part of the furniture Friend

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    Why not be just grateful that it is going over the GE at all. This is 2018 not 1958 after all.

    Peter
     
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  5. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    I was thinking of booking on this but not if it's gonna be shoved up the hills and away from restarts. I'll treasure instead the memories of unassisted runs with Ollie in the past.
     
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  6. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Part of the furniture

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    Assuming RTT is correct (may not be of course) is not a P5 departure and P6 arrival unusual for steam? I am sure all my steam trips have used P 9 or 10
     
  7. Where's Mazeppa?

    Where's Mazeppa? Member

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    Looking back at the posts contributed to the Steam Dreams 2018 thread at the start of November, even then I think we all knew in our heart of hearts that there was a high risk that Cromwell would be chaperoned on this outing. And that that would inevitably mean a big disappointment for the timing fraternity. Practising the principle of "Caveat Emptor" has proved its worth on this occasion.

    As things stand, I can't immediately visualise how a Cromwell/ GEML reunion might ever be reconstructed in the medium to longer term future if WCR's ability to support main line steam operations away from the North of England is going to become an increasingly big constraint as time goes by. And unless the orbit of LSL's commitments to main line steam operations with 70000 extends beyond the Saphos venture, the prospect of an unaccompanied Britannia outing to East Anglia generally and the GEML specifically would appear to be virtually nil.

    So maybe "Just be grateful......", however disappointing, is perhaps the wisest counsel on this occasion. Lets just hope that those recording images of the proceedings on the day are able to come up with a suitably evocative celebration of Cromwell's farewell to this route. Somehow I think they will............
     
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  8. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Was there a diesel on the back for 70013's Liverpool St to Norwich trip on 9-9-2008? I think that was its first public run after an overhaul.
     
  9. Where's Mazeppa?

    Where's Mazeppa? Member

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    The 1T57 re-run of the Fifteen Guinea Special on 10th August 2008 was the first post-overhaul public run. Looking at the YouTube evidence, the Norfolkman outing to Norwich on 9th September was a Load 10 affair with no chaperon.
     
  10. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Correct. Made a storming climb of Brentwood Bank with no need of any help whatsoever.
    [​IMG]70013 'Oliver Cromwell' Brentwood 09-09-2008. by KING COBRA 92, on Flickr
     
  11. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Part of the furniture Friend

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    No. We were on it. And there wasn't one on St George's Day 2009 either as we did that one too.

    As for Peter's comment above, 'Why not be just grateful that it is going over the GE at all. This is 2018 not 1958 after all', what a pathetic response.

    Open Access applies in the UK. The locomotive has a main line ticket in 2018 NOT 1958 and should therefore be allowed to run on the main line, particularly on such a short route as Liverpool Street to Norwich. It's only 2 just over 50 mile hops in either direction. The whole run is being made way outside any kind of rush hour; 1020 off and 1907 back. Plenty of time for shunting at Norwich. No justification for a box at all.
     
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  12. torgormaig

    torgormaig Part of the furniture Friend

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    Pathetic response? Is that because it does not concur with your idealistic view of how steam specials on the network should be run. Some of us live in the real world and, although it is far from perfect, we are happy to make the best of it. I would rather a Brit goes to Norwich with a diesel on the back than it does not go at all.

    Sorry for another "pathetic response".

    Peter
     
  13. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    I don't think any of us are really qualified to argue with an operational risk assessment which determines an assisting diesel is necessary. Whilst the approach often appears to err very much on the side of caution as you rightly say it at least permits a steam loco on the front.
    The slightly unsatisfactory element is the lack of clarity for folk to whom the matter is an important purchasing issue.
     
  14. alastair

    alastair Well-Known Member

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    That is how steam specials ARE normally run, if DBS is the operator. WCRC have other reasons why they often need to take along assistance. But now we are just going back over ground which has been debated ad infinitum (and beyond!) on here so many times.
     
  15. J Shuttleworth

    J Shuttleworth Member

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    Actually, there is a very good reason for the diesel remaining on the rear and it's nothing to do with shunting at Norwich: there is a 20mph blanket speed restriction imposed from Liverpool St to Stratford, which effectively negates any path to get the diesel out on its own (or back in again).

    I know it's difficult for some on this forum to accept but we do not put diesels on the rear just for fun. It is indeed 2018, not 1958, and if there is a demand to run on increasingly busy and congested routes, compromises often have to be made; in this case,AGA have already been most accommodating, in amending some of their services, so the train can run at all.

    JS
     
  16. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    May I ask James whether this is an example of the bits of operational information you alluded to in another thread not being passed on to potential customers by the promoter?
    As you emphatically point out operational necessity transcends all else but, that being the case, there is absolutely no reason for promoters not to be clearer if and when such circumstances prevail so that those to whom it matters can act accordingly.
     
  17. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Just received an e-mail offering 20% discount on this tour. Also 50% discount on the Valentine's Day runs and 20% off the St. David's Day run.
     
  18. 61648

    61648 Member

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    Personally I would have to agree that I would rather have a Britannia on the GEML with Diesel assistance than not at all, if said assistance happens to be 47580 then so much the better.

    Any chance at all of ever seeing a special down the Southend Victoria branch again...???
     
  19. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    For info, Tornado and DBC were subject to a speed restriction out to Stratford last summer due to infrastructure issues so this is actually old news.
     
  20. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    Not sure of your point in relation to the question I posed which is that if the promoter is told a diesel has to go along should they not make potential customers aware for an informed choice?
     

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