Cathedral's Express 30th September

Thanks for this but still mystified. Have been out to see a number of southbound runs and I must confess I've never noticed the A4s going any slower than other steam locos on the slow line. In fact I've got some storming sound recordings of them. If what you say is true, it's a variance to what my NR colleague has siad in that it's a gauging issue at certain points and not a blanket speed ban throughout.

 

Well I never! I was assuming it was a clearence issue. I'm no expert, so happy to be corrected, but I'd always thought that hammer blow was less significant on 3-cylinder locos (such as A4 and A1 pacifics) than 2 cylinder (such as Britannia). Maybe Britannia's lighter axle load (19 tons?) more than compensates for the 2-cylinder impacts? We live and learn...

 

I've been in to KX on the slow behind Bittern, 60mph seemed to be the only speed limit so things must have changed?

 

Just for reference, the axle load on a brit is given as 20 tons 5 cwt in "British Railways Standard Steam Locomotives" by E.S.COX.
Hammer Blow at 5 revs. per second
per wheel 2.12 tons
perAxle 2.55 tons
per rail 5.50 tons
Whole Locomotive 6.60 tons.

 

This train was not cancelled because of any pathing issue or restriction specific to A4s. It is more to do with Steam on the ECML.....

David

 

If that is the case why don't steam dreams just say so. I think most enthusiasts were a bit shocked at the reasons given. Did the situation also affect Saturdays White Rose?

 

Thin end of the wedge? Has the 30777 incident had more of an effect than we realise? So why did SD say it was a pathing issue? Seems just like a blatent lie.

 

I dont think that the 30777 incident has been totally resolved as yet.I also think that Network Rail and some of the TOC's make it up as it goes along.
Was there a suitable engine available for the job this Friday after 60019 withdrew.
Remember some engines will not be touched by WCRC and also some engines will not be touched by DBS.
It makes life to difficult for fare paying passengers in these difficult times.I assume they will get there money back for Fridays cancellation.

 

Let us make this quite clear. 60019(4492) did not, at any stage, withdraw. Agreement to go tho the NYMR was only reached after the Locomotive was 'stood down'.

 

Oakfield,
Thank you for that answer.

 

If you read my post, I said SEEMS. I wouldn't call a steam ban (for want of a better phrase) a pathing issue. I thought pathing meant there was no room between service trains to allow steam to run.

 

Two suggestions, which I think will help the debate:
Firstly, let's all go back and re-read the letter from Steam Dreams posted by No.7 in post number 17. That is the explanation for why their trip on 30th September was canceled. It says two things: 1) A workable path could not be found for the rostered loco (hence 4492 was available for the NYMR gala instead); 2) In the political climate following 777's problems, it was felt to be too difficult to negotiate a path for a loco that doesn't have the same pathing limitations. No fudge, no concealment. A concise summary of the problems faced and the decisions taken. It could be used in a textbook about how to run a railway tour promoter.

Secondly, let's not confuse The Cathedrals Express on Fri 30th Sept, run by Steam Dreams (the subject of this thread) with The White Rose promoted by RTC on Sat 24th Sept, which I think has its own thread.

 

I think it might be wise for steam to stay clear of the london end of the ECML for while.
if anything else went bump, the public desires for retribution may be detrimental to the steam movement as a whole.
Your average get up at 5am, commute to work for 8am, finish at 6pm and get home for 8pm Londoner would be very aggrieved if every week some steam train failed meaning they didn't get home till 10pm.

 

As opposed to the signal failure in the Holloway area that has brought the ECML to a stand for the past couple of hours or more.

 

Does that mean they are going to ban signals?

 

Have you not been to the Cambrian lately or heard of ERTMS.........?

If I understand what has been said and I have heard elsewhere, 4492 could not work the train due to pathing restrictions (caused by speed limits on the slow applying to RA 9 locos). The final cancellation seems to have been due to a desire not to "push it" following the events of 2.9.2011. Which is exactly what Steam Dreams have said. The reason for the timing of the annoucnement was almost certainly due to efforts to ensure the train ran in some form that had been ongoing for some time.

Steven

 

My comment was meant to be sarcastic! Saying that it seems they been moving the goalposts a lot regarding the 30th. Another thing noticable on here is that anyone directly involved with a preserved railway/loco/centre etc, in whatever capacity really get uptight if anything is said they don't agree with or like. No sense of humor.

 

Because of all the political ramifications and the knock on effect on both subsequent tours an L/E moves on the East Coast Mainline since the 2/9 incident may I take this opportunity to thank the fool responsible for the mis management of 30777 which lead to the problem for doing more harm to the steam movement than all the TOC Chief Execs. who are anti steam.

A few moments of stupidity have lead to the loss of main line tours and movements leading to loss of revenue to Charter operators, Loco owners and (potentially) to a preserved line. Not to mention the disappointment to the intending passengers.

 

So was mine - hence the reference to the "success" of ERTMS on the Cambrian (oddly, DB have announced they don't intend to advance fitting ERTMS to trunk routes over the enxt decade).

Personally, I have always thought mechancial signalling seems most reliable (or, as a colleague said, "at least there is something you can hit with a hammer if it goes wrong"!), which turned out not to be the best comment to make to the senior Controller at York during a Box/Control visit a few years back! How was I to know he'd been having to find a Pilotman every shift for the last couple of days due to the Poppleton Block Machine failing?

Steven