Catering, especially coffee!!!

I love visiting our railways. Over the winter I've had fantastic rides on the WSR, SVR, Bluebell, Swanage and Didcot enterprises. Staff/volunteers are incredibly helpful and welcoming. The fares offer remarkable value for money and the souvenir shops are excellent. Even the toilets have improved noticeably since the early days! In all these areas, the railways compare well with one of my other great loves - stately homes.
But oh dear, the food! The coffee!! The agony!!!
Of course, I'm not expecting haute cuisine, what I would love would be a nice plain healthy meal, say a nice salad (not fried), or a sandwich with no meat or cheese.
As for the coffee....I'm not expecting a Milanese barista, but I would like to taste coffee in my drink. A lot of railways (and some stately homes) were clearly visited by a glib tongued coffee machine salesman a few years ago, as so many of them have the same piece of kit. He would doubtless have sold the machines on their undoubted convenience to the caterers - just push a button and there you go! Sadly, what you have is not an acceptable product. I know that old fashioned filter coffee is harder work, but by gum I'd pay twice the price for a decent mugful!
This is not meant to be an aggressive or negative post, merely an observation from an unashamed steam loving diletente who would prefer not to have to wander off site for refreshment.
Am I in a minority on this one?

 

They do a really good hot choclate at Sheffield Park in the Bessemer Arms

Regards,

Dan

 

Have you been to the K&ESR?
The catering facilities there are fantastic.

 

While certain visitors to preserved railways (yourself included) might prefer a cup of filter coffee and a non-meat, non-cheese sandwich (what's left btw?), the railway has to perform a balancing act to keep the mass market happy and visitors spending money.
Those who prefer a higher standard of catering may well pay more for their products, but will the other 90% (for example) pay those prices? Possibly not, which may lose the railway a large proportion of income. The simple solution of course is to have 2 coffee machines and 2 sandwich standards, but is this really an economic propostion?


Keith

 

I think your comments would equally be true of many other visitor attractions like theme parks, garden centres etc and not just preserved railways. When the customer base is of the 'let's turn up and see what's on offer' kind it is not easy for any type of catering operation to match the quality of service which is possible in other situations.

Having said that I believe (though only from limited experience) that the more ambitious on-train catering operations run by some of our leading preserved lines can and do reach very high standards indeed both in the quality of food provided and in its presentation. It's not something I do regularly, but only recently I had the very enjoyable experience of a Sunday lunch on the GCR's 'Elizabethan' service. OK, this type of operation is for pre-booked passengers only and served to a set menu, which makes things a lot easier for the staff, who were mainly enthusiastic young volunteers. The whole experience was highly professional throughout. It fully lived up to the excellent reputation which the GCR has buolt up for this type of dining service. I doubt if anyone would have gone away disappointed, more probably they would have been looking forward to a repeat visit. Well done and thank you GCR.

 

Talking of Dining trains, I am one of the Head Waiters on the Wealden Pullman at the K&ESR.
You know when you go to a restaurant and you have a nice meal, you recommend a friend to go there because of your experience, only to see them have a bad evening.
The Wealden Pullman is the ONLY place I would ever recommend for someone to have a meal and I would, can and do say that they will have a fantastic time and well the soup.... Damn.
I am doing more HW turns this year because I love working in an environment where everyone is enjoying themselves.

 

My experience of Sheffield Park is that the Bessemer Arms is pretty good - certainly reasonable pub standard. Horsted is basically limited to pasty / chips, but I believe most of the food is bought in on the first up service from the Park, rather than cooked on site. Kingscote is muffin / coffee in plastic cup territory only, but then on a normal day, not many people hang around.

Although I disagree with the original poster re Sheffield Park, which I think is the best food on any railway I know well, I think it is a fair comment to ask - the standard is definitely variable. Of railways we visit with any degree of frequency, we get to learn where to eat. For example, on the SVR, I prefer the cafe in the Kidderminster museum to portacabin at Bridgnorth. I remember pretty decent food at Grosmont on the NYMR and the top station on the Talyllyn. On the WSR - we'd always go into Minehead than eat on the station, similarly at Swanage (though at both the proximity to the town makes the issue of food less catastrophic if it is poor than at other more isolated railways).

Tom

 

marmite on toast - brilliant.

 

Yep, I'm up for that!

As posted earlier I think most visitor attractions seem to vary greatly on what is on offer and the prices at some are extortionate. A couple of years ago we were at a well known theme park in the northwest and they wanted £4 for a slice of soggy pizza, needless to say they didn't get me to part with my cash.

Don't even mention motorway services...Oops, I just did.

Neil.

 

As the Catering Manager on the Kent & East Sussex Railway, I feel able to comment!

We are I'm afraid one of those railways that has a "push the button" machine in our Refreshment Rooms at Tenterden. Whilst I would love to have a "bean to cup" machine, they are far too slow: we can go from zero customers one moment to 200+ the next when a train arrives. There's also the question of space and cost - a new coffee machine can easily be into 5 figures!
However we do also offer cafetiere's of coffee for the more discerning customer who is willing to pay more for a better product.

With regard to menus, we sell what the customer wants. Whilst we do list lots of homemade fare, salads, etc etc. on our menu, the biggest selling choice is generally sausage, mash & beans. They are good sausages though, made 2 miles away and the potatoes are organically grown in a field next to the line!

 

Wow! I've obviously missed some treats here, especially on the SVR (I ate at an intermediate station), while I haven't eaten on the K&ESR (I had a young lady with me on that occasion, and to my shame, we headed into town without even checking the railway's fare).
As for the earlier question about the type of sandwiches I'm looking for, the answer is tuna, salmon, prawn, plain salad etc. I simply don't trust anyone's meat sandwiches! I checked the Sheffield Park offerings both before the first departure and again before the third train on Saturday and there was only meat or cheese. I eventually plumped for very disappointing fish, acceptable chips and disgusting peas accompanied by a horrid tartare sauce. Coffe was tasteless. Happily, the beer was heavenly, the Fairburn brilliant, the ride terrific and the staff amazingly friendly.
I fully accept the convenience argument in defence of coffee machines, but wish they could be programmed to make decent coffee. The K&ESR's cafetiere sounds really good! I hope to head that way shortly for the visit of the Jinty and the Standard 4.
I also accept that many attractions (and motorway services apart from Cafe Nero outlets) are greater transgressors than railways! To my shame I have not tasted any railway's premium dining offering, yet!

 

As you mentioned visiting Swanage I would like to confirm that we provide mugs of filter coffee as standard. You can get 'Instant' or decaffeinated on request.
Teas are from 'bags' [rather than loose with tea strainers - which we found most customers didn't have time for] but you can also get a wide range of fruit/'herbal' "teas" too.
Hot Chocolate comes in sachets but is much the same 'recipe' as large containers [for which we have very limited space].
There's also quite a wide range of hot & cold food [especially considering it's all run from an RBR] with much of it prepared to order.

 

At the last couple of SVR galas I have had breakfast in the Valley Suite and it is consistently excellent.

My big hate is plastic cups with thick fold-back rims, especially those supplied with the drink already in. The SVR sell these from their on-train catering trolleys. It doesn't matter how hard you try, as you get half way down the cup, the drink gets around the rim and you end up dribbling down your shirt.

Anyone else think that using modern catering trolleys on heritage lines spoils the atmosphere, as well as the potential to damage the stock? Part of the charm is going to visit the buffet car....

 

I agree with Cymroglan. The arguments against providing better quality also apply to other catering establishments too but if the cafe is a permanent presence (as opposed to a tent or booth only open for special events) then an improved quality will pay over time. Catering for visitors should be a profitable sideline for preserved railways but there are many lines where it is under-exploited. In cases where the staff are volunteers rather than experienced caterers there is often the case where they will go down to the cash and carry and buy a massive tin of cheap powdered filth because "that's what we've always done". A short visit from a catering consultant can often pay rich dividends. People expect to pay £1 for a good coffee now, and offering muck in a thin plastic cup that you can't even hold and charging 50p is an economy that achieves nothing except to encourage them to bring a flask.

 

Not that you're biased in any way?

No, no, not biased at all...

Ah, Admin, so the Wealden Pullman is fantastic, but the buffet has a noxious cheapo machine!

The difference is, of course, that the likes of the OP can't just casually stroll on to the WP and have a 'fantastic' meal when he happens to visit the KESR.

Not only is the WP booked up months in advance, it costs a great deal more than the kind of fare that the OP is talking about. The exclusve, Pullman-quality dining train is simply not comparable to the 'standard' day grub the OP is talking about.

I still think the KESR lost something when the buffet building was built. Fond memories of scraping cheap margarine on to cheap bread on the cheap melamine work surfaces in Theodora...

 

Some of the best railway food I've had has been at Grosmont and Porthmadog. Both excellent. I can't comment on coffee mind you - vile stuff, regardless of how it's made!

 

Last Saturday we called in the Kidderminster Railway Museum, and bought two cups of coffee, and two pieces of rather good coffee & walnut cake. ( other varieties of cake are available...) The coffee is one of those jobbies where you let the water filter through a sort of tea bag arrangement into the cup, so at least you have to wait a little while for the process to take place, but is absolutely fresh. Excellent coffee, complete with biscuit.
The whole lot, two coffees, two pieces of cake, £4, and I get to browse through the secondhand railway book shelves.. What more can I say! (their sandwiches are rather good as well)

 

Interesting thread this - on the one hand I agree that quality is important as I imagine a fair few railways make their money through the canteen and gift shop and punters who've been dragged out by their other halves will welcome the chance of a decent brew but, on the other hand, speed is a definite factor here too.

I was at the GCR Winter Gala and at Rothley there was a 50 minute wait for food (not for coffee I hasten to add, but bear with me). Wasn't really a problem for me as I'd planned to break my journey before anyway and the catering stff were doing their best on what wasn't a usual day in terms of punter numbers, but the point is, is it possible to offer a quality product at a reasonable price yet do so quickly enough to process passengers from a newly arrived train before the back markers give up and search for sustenance elsewhere?

And all that without losing the charm of the volunteer-led canteen? (We don't ask very much do we!)