Bulleid Pacifics - Past or Present

A very well written posting that myself, and I suspect very many others here, totally agree with.

 

Might i just ask one question: What is the condition of Shaw Saville? I know it's in bits at the moment but what is the condition of those bits.

 

.....which makes the decision by the MHR to buy 35005 seem a bit odd! Trains on that line normally only load to 5 or at most six coaches, easily handled by a class 5 loco. Even the NYMR would be pushed to use an MN economically I think; 60007, although it is used regularly, is a special case in that it is distinctive enough to be an attraction in its own right, as will 60532 when it is running again, but the MNs do not seem to have quite the same glamour. It will be interesting to see how much use 35006 gets at the GWSR once it is running

 

I should start by saying I am not an engineman, but I have heard them discuss firing Bullied and heard the figures for coal consumption on two different railways comparing Bullied to other locos. In both cases, it was Light Pacifics, not Merchant Navies, which will have an either bigger firebox.

The key, I understand, is a thin fire - don't try a big back end in any wide box! The Bullied would be designed to burn poor quality coal but no Southern locos could afford to eat the stuff as the supply was limited to the Kent Coalfield or bring it in from pits in other Company's areas - which would add to cost.

A Bullied will never be as economical as the best of other types but just how much coal they use varies enormously depending upon the restraint and skill showed in firing. Hence, a Merchant Navy probably can be used reasonably economically on the larger lines, and using a more powerful loco that isn't taxing itself should save on repair and overhaul costs, so the "whole life" cost could/should be similar. There's always a lot of "should" in these things!

 

With the price of scrap metal rising so fast, 35009 will be worth far more than the price of a house soon. I'm not in anyway suggesting it should be scrapped thouggh. A fairly good locomotive kitset, that has been carefully stored, is always going to be worth good money, especially as repair costs on existing working locomotives rise due to components being worn out. Someone, at some stage, will recognise the value in 35009 and pay Mr Riley's price, in the meantime Mr Riley can do as he pleases with it.

We'd all love our own locomotives, but unless we are able to come up with the hard cash for such an engine, we shouldn't criticise someone who is actively preserving engines. From what I saw on ebay, 35009 is in a far better state of preservation than a certain spam can that Mr Willis could be keeping in a good state of preservation, he does after all work on the railway that the spam can is "preserved" on.

Daniel

 

* BLUSH *

 

First of all I didn,t search E-Bay, it was from a thread on this forum that the info came from, and secondly I have always used "N" Guage.

A question if I may please?,where do you get your information from about how much certain individuals do in preservation?, odd this.

On a more serious note I have mailed Ian via a private message.

Regards
Chris

 

Not so odd, really. I think there were a couple of factors. The most obvious is that 35005 is well-known and well-liked at Ropley, in reasonable (though "tired") condition, and already on site. "A Merchant Navy in the yard is worth two unrestored black fives in a bush", you might say. Also, I think they got her for quite a good price, though no one's saying exactly how much cash changed hands, obviously.

I take issue with the idea that a Merchant Navy is a less "glamourous" loco than an LNER A2. To a Southern enthusiast, there's nothing quite like them, and they are a perfect "flagship" loco for any Southern line that can cope with the 22T axle weights. I agree that an A4 will turn public heads because of the streamlining, but to Joe Public, an MN is just as impressive (or otherwise) as an A2, a Duchess or a King. Clan Line has done a lot to raise the profile of Merchant Navys in this part of the world, and I think she's now as well known as any express loco (with the exception of Mallard and Flying Scotsman, of course).

Expensive to run? Yes, but not as prohibitively costly as some seem to think. If driven and fired carefully, coal consumption needn't be too great (do you agree, Chessie & Co?), and there's an argument that a powerful loco working at 50% capacity will not wear out it's bearings, boiler and so on as quickly as a small loco working at >80% capacity. A day on the Watercress Line (typically 3 round trips) is not exactly a stroll in the park, remember. With 1-in-80 or 1-in-60 gradients on all sections, even CanPac has to sweat a little.

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Just to speak up for cct_man - he spends a lot of his time at Medstead & Four Marks giving much-needed TLC to the trucks and vans there. Have a look at the wagon restoration pages of the Watercress Line's web site to see some of his handiwork. Then have a look at Matt Allen's site to see finished products in action.

 

If I remember right one of the reasons for the MHR buying 35005 was they knew what the condition she was in.

 

Should 34073 249 Squadron have given her wheel set up to go under 34046 Braunton instead of removing a wheel set from 35011 General Steam Navigation?

 

No, because 35011 received the wheelset with the flawed axle from 34046. Even if it kept the original it would still need a new crank axle, crankpins, balance weights etc.

 

I disagree. I'm an A4 man through and through - but the MN's have something special about them, as do all the top link passenger engines from the big 4 (and BR!!). I travelled to the MHR for their gala event last September and the sight of 35005 running around on 'boat trains' was awesome. The only thing that spoiled it for me were the number of people complaining about the lack of visiting loco's - I was in phot heaven

 

Well said that man you just can't beat a Merchant Navy.
=D> =D> =D> =D>

 

Merchants look O.K., but Duchesses, well you can't compare the two. (Northern bias?)

 

The sheer size and scale of a merchant is just something to see. They are in my mind wonderful engines and when in preservation has anyone really cared about what is economical to run when such a work horse has a fire in it's belly and a full train behind it. I'm very much looking forward to P&O coming out of restoration and with all the exciting things happening on the GWR it will have a very impressive line to run along.

 

The Merchants are a class act and the likes of Clan Line have shown they are a reliable class act too. Tangmere on the main line is sublime. I was on a run behind her from York to the Cross last year, the final part of which was as good as some of the runs I had in 1967. The Duchesses, however, outshine them all, as 6233 showed when she was let out on The Talisman a year or so ago. The Crewe drivers I used to speak to in the early 60s always said, "Give us the East Coast mainline and we'll show them what a Duchess can do." Several of them thought a Duchess was good for 130. I don't know, I was a teenage trainspotter then.

 

They obviously didn't have to mend them after they finished thrashing them.

 

Of course the 4 cylinder Midland loco would always be one ahead of the MNs and A4s so far as power output was concerned.

But so far as outright speed is concerned it is the Bulleids that come second to the A4s in terms of the number of properly documented 100 mph plus runs recorded by any UK steam locos.

 

That is well known of course! But I am wel informed of Bulleids reaching these speeds..... ;-)

 

Without knowing your name I'm not sure if you were one of "our crowd" in the 1960s? The 20 or so fanatical timers who recorded the most incredible running in the Bulleid swansong.

Including that wonderful night when I stood right behind the late Fred Burridge and watched him wind the speedo of a totally knackered 35003 well off the clock? A moment in my life I will never ever forget. Fully documented by those back in the train as 106 mph, the highest ever properly recorded speed behind a Bulleid. And there was no thrash. No more than 3/4 regulator as he took the lightweight train out of the Basingstoke start up to 7 miles at an average of 100 mph. Which he repeated exactly the next night with a slightly faster start and 105 mph maximum.