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Bulleid 4-DD Preservation

Discussion in 'Diesel & Electric Traction' started by maninthecorner, Nov 21, 2015.

  1. Mark Hickmott

    Mark Hickmott New Member

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    Anthony, any chance you could get the plans for the 4DD done for us free of charge, instead of charging us £835?
    Thanks Mark
     
  2. John Stewart

    John Stewart Well-Known Member

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    This isn't really the sort of request that one puts on this forum.:(
     
  3. ghost

    ghost Well-Known Member

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    I agree. If Anthony gives the 4DD group a freebie then he'd have to do it for everyone...

    Mark - do you really need the plans at this stage? By your own admission you don't yet have an agreement with the 4DD owner for a sale/lease on the vehicle, so is there any point in spending a lot of money on plans/parts/equipment etc?


    Keith
     
  4. nick813

    nick813 Well-Known Member Loco Owner

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    Hello,
    I would also get a photographic record of the unit as it stands with photos including a measure./ruler.
    When you take it to bits you can cross reference photos with rebuild........start searching for all those missing bits and bobs.

    Plus you have an archive for future generations.


    Nick
     
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  5. Sawdust

    Sawdust Member

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    In the scale of these kind of projects, less than a thousand pounds for the drawings is small beer. At least you know they are available and the cost can be factored into any grant application.

    That said I heartily can recommend a trip to York to look through the drawings. You will find not all are necessarily useful in this kind of restoration. There may be drawings of all the underframe components or sheets with lists of screws and bolts used to build them.

    Best wishes

    Sawdust.
     
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  6. Mark Hickmott

    Mark Hickmott New Member

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    It's wishful thinking, we are taking a visit up there soon. I just wish that this sort of thing could be more accessible and at a realistic price to all. I'm sure that some people are put off getting the drawings because of the price. I was shocked at the cost! As many people have said, this project is ongoing with settling terms, but we are nearly there. Sorry if people didn't like the post, but as my Dad use to say "if you don't ask, you don't get" Since my post a sponsor has come forward to pay for them! So, it did work after all!
     
  7. Mark Hickmott

    Mark Hickmott New Member

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    It's worked I now have a sponsor!
     
  8. K14

    K14 Member

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    I too have looked at their pricing (from the old OPC list) & thought that the print costs were on the high side*, but that the price for a digital copy wasn't outrageous - £7.50 a pop. OK that can mount up, but as most preservation projects will run into five or six figures it's a fairly insignificant outlay - wait until you have to stump up for a run of moquette and someone to fit it, then you'll be properly shocked!

    Most of the time you're going to want to be looking at **parts** of the drawing & that's where a digital copy scores. You can either zoom in on the screen or crop & print the bit you need at a size that's useful rather than wrestling with A0 sheets and a magnifying glass. If you really do need them printing at full size, look around your local area for a print shop that'll do plan/map printing.

    +1 to Nick's suggestion of photographs with a reference measure (even if it's just a stick with felt pen markings). You will find that the reality differs from the GA by quite a lot!

    Pete S.
    C&W Dept.,
    GWS Didcot.

    *I used to work for a high-street copy/reprographics shop & we charged about £6 for an A1 B/W print and less than a tenner for A0.
     
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  9. maninthecorner

    maninthecorner New Member

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    Are the EE507 traction motors used on the class 455s the same model as those from the 4-DD? It is suggested that some 455 ones came from 4-SUBs, and the 507s from the 4-DDs were removed at Slade Green in 1971 so may have gone in the spares pool if the same type.
     
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  10. pmh_74

    pmh_74 Member

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    I spent about £400 on drawings for Palbrick B B462772, restoration to anything close to original condition would have been impossible without as I am having to replicate parts which simply no longer exist (the wagon had been heavily modified as have all other survivors).

    Seemed a lot a the time but I have spent far more than that just on wood.

    (For what it's worth, making some of the parts on said drawings seems to be a bigger challenge, which is why it isn't finished yet, but that's another story!)


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  11. Mark Hickmott

    Mark Hickmott New Member

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    We're lucky because we now have a sponsor who will pay the cost, if we get the go ahead.
    As for making parts, that's not a problem, we have people who have the skills and machinery to do this, including me.
    I've been involved with many multi million pound projects for companies in the last 20 plus years, involving engineering and construction and transportation, so hopefully this will help with the overall plan for the project.
    Projects are never easy but can be alot easier if there is good support from the one place could help.

    Money is always the key to a project and good financial planning at the start is important, so having a set of plans at the start is essential to the overall costing of your project business plan. This will of course help with any funding from funding organisation.
    As we all know getting grants etc, is like getting blood out of a stone!
     
  12. maninthecorner

    maninthecorner New Member

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    This a repeat of a request placed in the Photographic Section of this forum just now, sorry if this is not the normal way to link requests.

    The Bulleid 4DD Double Deck EMU Group (at present a interest and support group), are looking for new unpublished photos that we can use to illustrate the class.
    We are looking for photos of the units under construction (a long shot but you never know).
    On test away fron the normal routes.
    In service.
    On shed.
    The coaches being cut up.
    We have lots of views from 1972 and the Asford period onwards so early 1949 - 1971 is what we are hoping to find.
    If you have any that you could let us use to please let us know through here or via a PM (Copyright will be credited to and remain with the owner). The groups website is below which can link you to our active FB group which has grown from 150 to 600 in only two months. We know there is interest in this failed experiment out there. We wish to grow the awareness (and hopefully do more!).
     
  13. maninthecorner

    maninthecorner New Member

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    A quick update on the current situation. The coach at Sellinge (13003) has gone through the storms protected by its cover which is still in good order. As soon as the summer returns we will be able to properly access the condition and draw up a action plan working with the owner. The group with permission of the owner has undertaken a number of working parties to the site in order to clear it of dumped tyres and other rubbish, in order to make the site safe. The group is on good terms with the owner and progress as to access is positive. Any one who wishes to join a work group needs to register via our yahoo group. We currently plan to run one working party mid week a month with others at weekends so if you have any skills that can help (site clearing for the next few months) please do register. We are limited to around six per party at present due to restictions at the site.

    Please note the location at Sellinge is private property, please do not attempt to visit. Security is high with loose dogs. For the present we would ask anyone who would like to look at a coach from a 4DD to take a look at the one at the Northampton Ironstone Trust (13004) as this is on public view.
     
  14. maninthecorner

    maninthecorner New Member

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    The group are now attending regular working parties on site at Sellinge working with the owner, we are however a small team. The team have been clearing the site which will continue for the next few weeks, lots of tyres and soil had been dumped next to the coach in the years it has been stored and needs moving in order to gain easy access and allow for parking.

    If any one would be interested in joining us we run working parties most Saturdays and some Tuesdays we normally attend (10 till 3). However site restrictions and security require registration on our Yahoo Group first.

    Please send a email to: kentbulleid4ddemugroupsubscribe@yahoogroups.co.uk

    Please note the Site at Sellinge sadly does not allow casual visits, only those on working parties can be allowed access.
     
  15. Maunsell man

    Maunsell man Member

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    I have seen the 4DD moulder at Swann Farm for years and am very pleased somebody has taken an interest in it as it is a fascinating piece of kit. However I'm still not sure what the actual aim of the group is. What is the goal? Where is it likely to be located (assuming Esmond will allow it to be moved one day). Who will own it? The present owner is extremely aged (though very sprightly) but should he pass away who will own it and what will they want to do with it? To what standard is it likely to be repaired to? You have spoken previously about refurbishing traction motors but NR realistically never ever allow it near the network. Is it the eventual aim to reunite it with its surviving twin and where? Is the aim to conserve it or actually repair it back to a standard where it could be used?
     
  16. maninthecorner

    maninthecorner New Member

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    Thanks for your questions Maunsell.man .

    Some background, the group is only 5 months old. We have 700 followers on social media, 50 have given details that they may get involved via our Yahoo Group and from that currently a dozen or so are active in site preparation. We are aware of the ownership issues (as is Mr E) things are happening on this in the back ground, on this i can comment no more. However Mr E is getting on very well with the team, in fact I think we have made him a bit younger. Many people said we would not evan get to talk to him.

    At present the existing team plan a cosmetic restoration, hopefully to a high standard. We have found replacement curved glass so that's not an issue. Motors, why not a cosmeticly restored class 33 would be incomplete without its engine. No plans to even talk about running on NR. There may even be a source of spares for seats lighting etc. The cab is mostly complete. The body has rust (lots) but so do many restored Mk1 coaches. The compartments are lightweight so restoration is possible and along the lines of bus restoration in away.

    Location, what is wrong with where it is, the team are local. We wish to discuss a structure to cover it with the landowner, the long term agreements need to be in place before that can happen.

    5 to 10 year project to do it right first time, we have some experts from the Rly industry in our team so we can call on advice.

    As to where it goes when restored that's a long way off and teams and attitudes of museums and railways change, it will be a talking point we are sure it will get Media interest.

    It would be nice to have the two coaches back together one day. However we are not a threat to the Northampton Ironstone Trust who own 13004. The team are planning a visit to the NIRT next month just to introduce ourself. Maybe we can work alongside them as loco groups don't own all the surviving class of loco but often share knowledge.

    Watch this space!
     
  17. Maunsell man

    Maunsell man Member

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    Thanks for the comprehensive reply Ian. Wish you and the team luck. I know Swann Farm very well and have always looked at the DD with more than a touch of regret. There was an active restoration group down there as part of SLL but I think they have more or less packed up now which is a pity. Since Les died it isn't clear what the Birch family will do with the farm and estate. I think as a medium to long term issue its worth having a plan B if they decide to dispose off Swann Farm and you need to move on. Les has a couple of other vehicles there, the Mansell wheeled full brake and the compost corner grounded bodies. I guess they are all fairly well past redemption though?
     
  18. MellishR

    MellishR Well-Known Member Friend

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    What are the differences from other preserved EMUs that would prevent that? Is it wider or higher?
     
  19. The Saggin' Dragon

    The Saggin' Dragon Part of the furniture Staff Member Moderator

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    Yes to both. I doubt that any UK operators safety case has double-deck trains on it? :)
     
  20. Luke McMahon

    Luke McMahon New Member

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    Weren't the 4DDs restricted to just a few routes anyway? At least there's slow progress being made & new windows etc fitted it'll at least protect it from the elements.

    Any possibility of a few snaps of the work so far guys? Would love to see it, only got phots from flickr/google which don't give a very detailed view.
     

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