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Brighton Belle update

Discussion in 'Diesel & Electric Traction' started by 73129, Jan 1, 2013.

  1. 35B

    35B Part of the furniture

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    If memory serves me right, they had 3,200hp on tap - more or less the power of a Deltic. So working normally propelling two 4TC units, they had the power/weight ratio of a Deltic on 9 or 10 carriages. At 175t for just a REP unit, they had silly power - and weren't restricted by light engine rules.
     
  2. Romsey

    Romsey Member

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  3. Romsey

    Romsey Member

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    Yes, semi fast Southampton - Waterloo with a lone 4 REP and an empty railway was rather brisk. 70 minutes Southampton to Waterloo, calling at Southampton Airport, Eastleigh, Winchester, Basingstoke and Woking. The fast workings of the late 1970's were timed for 70 minutes just calling at Southampton Airport.
    A little known fact was the 4REPS were intended to haul freight traffic between Southampton Western Docks and South Lambeth Goods. First of all a fleet of air braked vans and opens had to be provided, but the 3rd rails were never extended into the yard in the Western Docks or into South Lambeth. It never happened so class 73's held sway until the traffic ceased in the late 1970's on full containerisation of the South African traffic.

    Cheers, Neil
     
  4. athelney

    athelney New Member

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    That would have been interesting 4REP + half a dozen vans on the down at 90MPH through the points at the south end of Micheldever !!
     
  5. Romsey

    Romsey Member

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    Even air braked vans at 60 mph....
    The idea eventually floundered , not for technical reasons, but the REP duties finished at Clapham Yard but mainly Bournemouth and it was just easier to use conventional locos. The four step EMU controls wouldn't have given the fine control required with freight working to avoid snatching the couplings. ( For this reason class 33/1 and 73 locos were always driven on the loco control settings not EMU controls when working freight traffic.)
    Even then there were occasional broken couplings when a few BR registered ferry vans ended up working between Western Docks and South Lambeth which were normally worked by 73/1's.

    After that quick diversion into memories of Southampton area freight, a thought about who will drive the 5BEL?
    How many drivers with whichever TOC who have the contract for mainline operations, will have ever driven a 1957 style EPB fitted unit? It's 15 years since the end of slam door units (and conventional EPB control equipment) on most of the Southern Region.

    Cheers, Neil
     
  6. martin1656

    martin1656 Part of the furniture Friend

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    GB Railfreight drivers drive the Hastings unit on the mainline ,So, assuming its very similar in control as an EBP fitted unit I would imagine some will still be current ?
     
  7. Romsey

    Romsey Member

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    I think it is a small group of GBRf drivers who drive the 6H who have been specially trained. Although there is a travelling fitter, they should still be capable of fault finding on whatever traction they are driving. I presume similar arrangements will apply for the 5BEL.

    Cheers, Neil
     
  8. brmp201

    brmp201 Member

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    CH 19, weltrol, Steve B and 5 others like this.
  9. pete2hogs

    pete2hogs Member

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    Also check out the Clacton units - they had more power than enough! No way as much fun as a Deltic though, even if equivalent power.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_309
     
  10. Daddsie71b

    Daddsie71b Member Friend

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    The air smoothed REP's (442) were timed at 59 minutes Southampton Airport/Waterloo in the early 90's
     
  11. threelinkdave

    threelinkdave Well-Known Member

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    Southern units had more power than most people apreciate and had a common power to weight ratio. 4EPB, 4CEP, 4BEP, 4CIG, 4BIG AND 4 VEP all had 4 250hp motors giving 1000hp per 4 cars. As all units had the same provision, 250hp per car, for 8 cars you get 2000hp and for 12 cars 3000hp. Add an MLV and you get an extra 500hp. Thats 3500hp for 13 cars not bad for a "tram system"


    Two car units, 2EPB and 2HAP with one motor car and one driving trailer had the same power to weight ratio of 250hp per car
     
  12. JohnElliott

    JohnElliott New Member

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    Yes, I remember reading a book on the Modernisation Plan which mentioned in passing that (IIRC) an A4 with three or more coaches would have a worse power-to-weight ratio than an EPB.
     
  13. martin1656

    martin1656 Part of the furniture Friend

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    they though were allowed officially to do 100 mph , where the Reps, cigs etc, were officially limited to 90, but I know first hand that in many cases the reps did the ton, ( I observed the speedo through the cab door on an 8 car REP / TC ) clearly showing past the 90 mark
     
  14. burmister

    burmister Member

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    On the old LBSCR Portsmouth route Dorking /Horsham stretch was always a good length. Queen Vic reputedly had the fastest journey she ever had in the funeral train taking her back to London down Holmwood bank, the EPBs could hide the speedo pointer behind the cover ( Every Passenger Bouncing was certainly true then) and it was common to exceed 90 down Warnham bank in CIGs and BIGs having got to the top of the bank at Holmwood at 60 and Ockley at around 70. If the driver did not ease down for Warnham brickwork points regulars knew to lift the G&Ts up in the Buffet to avoid spillage. I have seen the speedo over 90 through Amberley towards Arundel as well. Going up the banks was another matter, you were lucky get over 60 on a packed 400 series peak hour train and the balancing speed on level was around 70. Perhaps the new Belle will have the weak field mod SWT did to the Greyhound units.

    B
     

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