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Brighton Atlantic: 32424 Beachy Head

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Maunsell man, Oct 20, 2009.

  1. andrewtoplis

    andrewtoplis Member

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    Leaving Havenstreet for Wootton is 1 in 71 from the platform end to the crossing then 1 in 60 to the overbridge, after that it is levels off and straightens out until you reach the right hand curve when it climbs again. If you look left as you leave the station the headshunt usually contains some carriages and it feels as if you are climbing very rapidly compared to these, an optical illusion as the headshunt is not quite level!

    Yes, the E1 will need plenty of work doing when the time comes! I have no idea of the Railway's plans for hire but do not forget the ferry crossing always complicates movements to and from Havenstreet.
     
  2. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    There was an issue of Atlantic News a few weeks back; here's a précis of the mechanical report:

    (*) The loco is propped up on some custom-built supports about a foot higher than its natural level to allow better access between the frames (still not on its drivers). "We have noticed that this gives us all the advantages of a pit without the pitfalls (literally!)" to quote Fred Bailey...

    (*) Slidebars attached between the cylinders and the their support brackets and carefully aligned

    (*) Machined crossheads and piston rods in stock. Work ongoing to machine the bronze crosshead slippers

    (*) Valve gear temporarily erected to check fit and then disassembled; various parts then sent away for case-hardening as required.

    (*) Piston valves assembled onto their spindles; inserted into the valve chests and linked to the valve drive via valve adjusters (effectively a bolt that can be rotated to move the valves forward or backward relative to the valve drive. A small modification has been made over the original that will allow the valves to be re-set to exactly the correct position after disassembly (for example, after replacing the valve piston rings) without having to go through the whole valve setting process afresh.

    (*) The various pipe runs for air, vacuum, lubrication, injectors etc have been plotted and the pipes are now being produced ready for fitting

    (*) The valve eccentrics are on hand. The keyways in the eccentrics have been left undersize to allow for a correction of a small error made when the wheels were assembled (by an outside contractor). Essentially, there is a keyway in the driving axle that needs to align precisely with the positions of the crankpins, such that the eccentrics have a precise angular relationship with the cranks. The wheels have been pressed on with a small error in the relationship between keyway and crankpin, but it is thought that this can be corrected in the eccentrics. The exact error is still to be determined, but is estimated to be less than 2 degrees.

    (*) Patterns made and castings obtained for sundry other parts, such as the spacers that separate the halves of the eccentric straps, and the onion shaped oil pots, crosshead oilers etc.

    (*) Component parts for cylinder glands machined (from ex-BR scrap…)

    (*) Westinghouse brake equipment under renovation and parts purchased for the vacuum ejector. Yet more stuff that has to go on between the frames!

    (*) Westinghouse pump renovated.

    Finally, a quote re-funding:

    "Hopefully you will appreciate that we are not too far from wheeling the chassis now, but such progress has depleted our funds. We think all the major expenditure on the chassis is now complete, but the boiler will be next for attention and that will require a fair sum to get into proper order […]. After that there is of course the tender to finish, but that is small fry in comparison to the boiler."

    Tom
     
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  3. JMJR1000

    JMJR1000 Member

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    Sounds like excellent progress to me Tom, I hope to see the Brighton Atlantic running before too long.

    On a side note though, all things considered, should they not focus on completing the tender, then go for the boiler? I would have thought that, if they are doing the boiler next, surely that would mean that when the boiler's finally overhauled and it's ticket is ticking, they would be unable to utilise it sooner as the result of the engine not yet having a tender to run with.

    Just a thought...
     
  4. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Without having seen a detailed plan, I don't know the specific order. But I get the sense the comment was more about the order in which funds are raised, rather than necessarily the work is done. In other words, gear up for the next funding push.

    I think the big-ticket item on the boiler is to produce a new superheater header (the usual story of pattern - casting - machining etc). Then there is retubing, producing superheater elements etc. There is also - presumably - a smokebox, door, chimney etc to produce. Then as you say, tender tank (quite likely to be subcontracted to a steel fabricator, I'd have thought) and all the loco plate work - cab, boiler cladding, running plate etc. I don't know enough about the boiler inspection regime, but presumably the insurance ticket starts when you ask the inspector to do his tests. In other words, I'd have thought you should be able to put a lot of work into the boiler, up to the point where you do your hydraulic test, and the "ticket" starts then. If that is the case (and that is speculation from me) then it should be possible to do most of the expensive work on the boiler, then temporarily put it in the frames so that the cladding, cab etc can be produced and tested for fit, then remove the boiler for its test safe in the knowledge that as soon as approval was granted, the final assembly could take place very quickly.

    Tom
     
  5. David-Haggar

    David-Haggar New Member

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  6. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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  7. jnc

    jnc Part of the furniture

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    What a great update! I speak there not of the actual progress (which is also significant and commendable), but of the images, explanatory text, etc. The series on the white-metalling was particularly interesting and instructive. Thanks to whoever put it all together.

    Noel
     
  8. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    An interesting concept in lubrication where high spots are provided to retain oil!
     
  9. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    That's not what it says, is it?

    "In the next photo, the bearing shows the blue markings, with a good proportion of blue (i.e. no high-spots), but with deliberate low-spots for oil retention."

    Anyway, I am sure the team know what they are talking about!

    Tom
     
  10. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Agreed, I got my highs and lows in a twist but I'm still intrigued at this concept of low spots for oil retention. Retain oil, perhaps, but as a keystone for good lubrication, I have my doubts.
     
  11. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

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    From what I can make out it was a common arrangement in the first quarter of the 20thC. It went out of fashion at Swindon in the 20s or 30s when Collett and Cook did a lot of work on bearing design and moved to all machined surfaces and felt pad lubrication (Cook: Swindon Steam) athough I think I've read sources that indicate some fitters continued to roughen bearing surfaces unknown to their management!
    You'd need a proper engineer to tell you whether its good practice or not, but from what I understand it was likely to be current practice in the works when the original locomotives were built.
     
  12. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    An interesting post. Don't let this start a debate...please....but it is also an interesting dilemma (that purists may dislike) when you tweak an authentic design to something different because understanding of the technology (or the needs of the railway) has moved on from when the item in question was originally constructed. It's daft not to, in my view. But you do have to be careful to know when to stop or, for example, you may end up with a rebuilt pacific rather than an original!
     
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  13. burmister

    burmister Member

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    Its all about ensuring a boundary layer (wedge) of oil separating the white metal and bearing surface develops as quickly as possible after rotation starts. Several ways of achieving this including having typical 20% of area as low spots spread over the surface of a bearing or the higher uniform finish method. Most include the cutting of oil ways to supply oil into the highest loading area of the bearing which will alter according to the speed of rotation and mass the bearing is supporting.

    As an aside crosshead bearings are a lot harder to lubricate due to constantly stop/start changing rotation direction of these bearings preventing effective boundary layer separation developing. Consider the difficulties in lubricating a crosshead bearing of a containership Wartsila (Sulzer) engine developing 109,000hp from 14 cylinders at 100 rpm.

    Brian
     
  14. dan.lank

    dan.lank Member

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    Was just reading an old article from 1989 when the project was just being dreamed up. It mentions that there was a plan to gather parts for the Atlantic from the S15 830 before it was decided to sell it. Are there many parts that would be common or useable for the two classes? Was quite surprised that there could be any!


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  15. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Curious - do you have a reference? I wouldn't have thought there were too many bits in common, except maybe a few small fittings (injectors, lubricators etc) that may have been SR standard, but would have been pretty unlikely to survive on 830 anyway!

    Tom
     
  16. dan.lank

    dan.lank Member

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    That's what I was thinking-all the useful small bits would have already gone missing! It's only a small reference actually, but it was Bluebell News Spring 89 in the loco dept report. "Possible full restoration is being assessed, which even after the allocation of parts for the Atlantic will still be feasible, but expensive." Just sounded like a reference to a better known plan...


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  17. Matt35027

    Matt35027 New Member

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    There was a thought that the MLS (when they owned it) could convert it to an N15, but I never new about giving up components for the Atlantic!
     
  18. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Sounds maybe like crossed wires on the part of the author? I really can't think that there is too much common ground between a large wheeled, wide firebox, inside valve gear Brighton-designed express passenger Atlantic and a small-wheeled, narrow firebox outside valve gear Eastleigh-designed mixed traffic 4-6-0!

    Tom
     
  19. Bramblewick

    Bramblewick New Member

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    I'm fairly sure that the intention was to use the frames of 830. After all, there isn't a lot in common between a large wheeled, broad gauge, Swindon-designed Gooch 2-2-2 and a small wheeled, standard gauge, mostly Leeds-designed Riddles 0-6-0ST... ;)
     
  20. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    I'm glad that idea was stillborn! Surely hacking the frames around to that extent must have been harder than just building new?

    Rather reminds me of some of the heroic efforts Martley undertook on the LCDR to try and make some semblance of reliable locos from those purchased by the directors before they had a competent CME. Outside-cylinder, inside-frame 4-4-0s entering the works and emerging as 2-4-0 tanks with different size wheels and inside-cylinders, outside-frames were the least of it. At least he had the excuse of the accountants pressing him to spend on the revenue and not the capital account!

    Tom
     

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